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Replying to Tournament Rule 9


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Plesh

Posted 06 July 2018 - 12:37 PM

With an exception that if they are injured, but return later in the game, they must meet MPR.


Lou Barbieri

Posted 05 July 2018 - 11:09 PM

As I've said more than once:
No one has ever accused Little League of writing good rules! B)

Send a "Recommendation" to Williamsport asking that they add something similar to the following to Regulation IV(i):
NOTE 4: If a player is injured, becomes ill or is ejected during the game then he/she is not required to meet the Minimum Play Requirement.
Also state that similar wording needs to be added to Tournament Rule 9.

Robin Barradio

Posted 05 July 2018 - 09:05 PM

Robin, it's not written in the Rulebook, it's just common sense.
How/why would you penalize a manager that put the player in the game and the player gets injured and as a result does not meet MPR?

Speaking of NOT in the MPR Regulation, it says it applies to players present at the start of the game but LL says it also applies to late arriving players that are put into the game even though it doesn't say that.

Lou, I'm not questioning whether a manager should be penalized if a player doesn't meet MPR because of an injury. It would make no sense to me how an injury could carry an MPR penalty. That's not the point of my post. I was asking if there is an AR, interpretation, or rule spelled out somewhere that specifically addresses this situation. Have you seen anything in writing?

 

I just find it curious that it is not explicitly spelled out in the rule book for a number of reasons.

1. It is spelled out in the rule book what to do with an injured batter under CBO (4.04 note 2). Yet it is nowhere that I have found for batting 9.

2. LL's own website has the following from Tournament rule 9 FAQ's:

"Q: Must the violation of the tournament Mandatory Play rule be deemed as “deliberate” for the manager removal penalty to apply?

A: All violations of Tournament Rule 9 are treated equally. However, the Little League International Tournament Committee reserves the right to impose additional penalties."

 

I can see how if you took the letter of the law, some people might assume that MPR can carry a penalty even with an injury. I think with the new T9 rule, there was some confusion over what to do with an injured batter in the OP. It never got resolved because the kid ended up batting. But it just got me thinking as to why LL wouldn't put a specific caveat in the rules.

 

Technically speaking, if in the OP, the player did not finish his at bat, regardless of the circumstance, that player has not fulfilled the MPR requirements. That is indisputable, that player would not get MPR. With that being said, and with injuries being spelled out in CBO, why wouldn't LL include an exception in the rules? IMO, it should be in there. Again, not saying an injury should carry an MPR violation penalty, but I find it curious that it's not spelled out. That's all.

 

Has anyone ever seen something in writing that addresses this situation? Just wondering. It is entirely possible that LL just wasn't considering this situation. It's happened before with other rulings, and will happen again.


Lou Barbieri

Posted 05 July 2018 - 11:14 AM

Robin, it's not written in the Rulebook, it's just common sense.
How/why would you penalize a manager that put the player in the game and the player gets injured and as a result does not meet MPR?

Speaking of NOT in the MPR Regulation, it says it applies to players present at the start of the game but LL says it also applies to late arriving players that are put into the game even though it doesn't say that.

richives

Posted 05 July 2018 - 04:15 AM

Lou, where is the injury clause in the Rulebook that states a injured player is exempt from meeting MPR?
I don't see it in the Rulebook.
I see 3.03 Note 3, but I'm not sure that applies.

I realize the starter could not re-enter in this situation, but what about the sub not meeting MPR?

Can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

 

Would you make him stand there on a broken leg to complete the AB?

Bat with a broken hand?

What if he was concussed?

 

Get real.


Robin Barradio

Posted 04 July 2018 - 08:50 PM

Lou, where is the injury clause in the Rulebook that states a injured player is exempt from meeting MPR?
I don't see it in the Rulebook.
I see 3.03 Note 3, but I'm not sure that applies.

I realize the starter could not re-enter in this situation, but what about the sub not meeting MPR?

Can you point me in the right direction?

Thanks.

Lou Barbieri

Posted 04 July 2018 - 08:24 PM

An injured player is NOT required to meet MPR.
The manager would not be penalized for a player not meeting MPR due to an injury.

Problem is, in a case like this, the Starter cannot return to the game until his/her Sub meets MPR.
So, if the injured Sub cannot continue then the Starter cannot return, the Starter is "burned" for the rest of the game.
That's why you shouldn't put in a Sub for your Starter until the Starter has met MPR.
Better safe than sorry!


The exception would be if there were no more legal Subs the opposing manager "could" pick the Starter to return (but why would he!).

Robin Barradio

Posted 04 July 2018 - 04:17 PM

Interesting situation in an All Star game last night that got me thinking LL might want to tweak the new Tournament Rule 9 (MPR).

Juniors All Star game. VT has 13 players, so MPR is one at bat. Top of the 4th, substitute "A" reports in batting for Starter "B". Sub "A" just needs one at bat.

 

First pitch comes in up and in. Sub "A" swings and misses and pitch hits him in shoulder. He starts to walk to first base, umpire calls him back and tells him it's a dead ball strike and he is still at bat. Sub "A" then tells PU his shoulder hurts too much and cannot continue. He walks towards the dugout and VT manager comes out to check on his player. Manager wants to replace sub "A" with starter "B".

PU tells the manager that he can't do that because sub "A" hasn't completed his MPR. Manager now realizes that if sub "A" doesn't bat, the he is violating the terms of MPR for that player. (It's a longer conversation, but not relevant).

Sub "A" eventually shakes off his injury, and grounds out for the first out. Game continues without incident.

 

This got me to thinking about the new T9 rule on MPR.

 

Say sub "A" could not continue in this situation. Would the VT manager be in jeopardy of being removed from the remainder of the tournament?

According to the FAQ's on the LL website, violation of rule T9 does not have to be deliberate and all violations are treated equally.

 

Seems a little unfair in this situation, but maybe the Tournament Committee would have some leeway.

 

Maybe there should be a rule regarding meeting MPR when there is an injury.

 

Thoughts?


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