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Replying to Mandatory Play - Tournament Only.


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Robin Barradio

Posted Yesterday, 04:59 AM

Getting rid of MPR would cause kids to not want to be on the team and/or parents not letting them be on the team. Been there. Not pleasant.

It's about winning, but not to the point of exclusion.

And don't forget that the other team is under the same rules. You aren't losing advantage by having to play your subs because they have the same constraints.

No mandatory play doesn't seem to be hurting travel-ball and the vast number of tournaments that are played that way.
It's no secret that the better kids, at least in our area, are flocking to travel-ball.
I'm not sure if other organizations, (Pony, Cal Ripken, ASA, etc.) have MPR in All Stars.
It would be interesting to know.

To be sure, smart coaches play their kids no matter what, and travel-ball teams better play their kids as well, or risk losing players.
But the whole LL MPR requirements in All Stars is not the answer to declining participation.
It's another band-aid fix to a perceived problem.

The constraints are only the same if each team has the same number of players.

Robin Barradio

Posted Yesterday, 04:47 AM

The 13 player (1 AB) rule should go away and not make 12 players mandatory. Yes i know most DAs sign off on 11 player rosters but I think you’d see a majority of 11 player rosters.

The roster rules are there to get more players on all star teams but to Robins point are the extra players truely all stars if they never see the field and only get 1AB.

Allowing rosters of 11 would make teams stronger and eliminate the 1AB rule and make subbing sooooo much easier.

I think many managers believe 11 <<<13 <<12.
Today If you have to take 12 May as well take that bubble kid to 13 and drop MPR to 1 AB.

One other thing? Why does it have to be consecutive outs? It’s not that way during the regular season? That would eliminate a some MPR issues too. Stay with 6 / 1 but they don’t have to be consecutive.

Exactly, if you have to take 12, just take 13 and you can get your better players back in the game sooner.

At some point, LL needs to give AS managers more leeway in deciding how to play their kids.

Jamief

Posted Yesterday, 04:19 AM

The 13 player (1 AB) rule should go away and not make 12 players mandatory. Yes I know most DAs sign off on 11 player rosters but I think you’d see a majority of 11 player rosters.

The roster rules are there to get more players on all star teams but to Robins point are the extra players truly all stars if they never see the field and only get 1AB.

Allowing rosters of 11 would make teams stronger and eliminate the 1AB rule and make subbing sooooo much easier.

I think many managers believe 11 <<<13 <<12.
Today If you have to take 12 you may as well take that bubble kid to 13 and drop MPR to 1 AB.

One other thing?
Why does it have to be consecutive outs?
It’s not that way during the regular season?
That would eliminate a some MPR issues too.
Stay with 6/1 but the outs don’t have to be consecutive.

richives

Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:05 PM

Again, what is your point or argument?

I have many years of experience as a manager, coach, President, BOD member, in addition to spending 16 years and counting as an umpire. I've umpired hundreds of LL games (all levels) at the local, district, section, sub-division, division, and regional level. I've also worked a number of years as a volunteer at WR.
I also umpire at the travel-ball, HS, and College summer ball levels. I've seen many All Star teams, worked many All Star games. The fact if the matter is that the caliber of All Stars in LL has diminished greatly.
Getting rid of MPR in All Stars (and other cumbersome regulations) would help re-attract quality players and coaches, and bolster the competitiveness. IMHO.

What would be some of your ideas to increase enrollment and competitiveness in LL?

 

 

Getting rid of MPR would cause kids to not want to be on the team and/or parents not letting them be on the team. Been there. Not pleasant.

 

It's about winning, but not to the point of exclusion.

 

And don't forget that the other team is under the same rules. You aren't losing advantage by having to play your subs because they have the same constraints.


amutz

Posted 17 April 2018 - 04:05 PM

Enrollment:

 

I've seen regular season enrollment drop locally for a couple of different reasons.    

1) Fewer kids growing up with baseball-fan parents able (or willing) to coach and teach them.  

2) Fewer kids in our school district

3) More alternatives in sports which are faster moving or shorter games like lacrosse, soccer, basketball, Fortnite (sadly)

 

Allstars has lost some players here to travel ball too.

 

Our league is trying to get more young players engaged with free tball days, wiffle ball days, complimentary skills clinics, and a lot more marketing outreach.    The more players we can get into tball, the better odds of a strong cadre of 11-12s.

 

One suggestion purely on All-star quality is to stop discouraging leagues from combining to form good teams.  Small leagues should be able to group together in a simple transparent process to form a competitive team.  


Robin Barradio

Posted 14 April 2018 - 08:57 PM


I've managed/coached 15 all-star teams (5 International Tournament and 10 "B" teams for local LL tournaments).
I'm not coming from a position of weakness or lack of knowledge.

Again, what is your point or argument?

I have many years of experience as a manager, coach, President, BOD member, in addition to spending 16 years and counting as an umpire. I've umpired hundreds of LL games (all levels) at the local, district, section, sub-division, division, and regional level. I've also worked a number of years as a volunteer at WR.
I also umpire at the travel-ball, HS, and College summer ball levels. I've seen many All Star teams, worked many All Star games. The fact if the matter is that the caliber of All Stars in LL has diminished greatly.
Getting rid of MPR in All Stars (and other cumbersome regulations) would help re-attract quality players and coaches, and bolster the competitiveness. IMHO.

What would be some of your ideas to increase enrollment and competitiveness in LL?

Robin Barradio

Posted 14 April 2018 - 08:44 PM

Yes, but ones that get to play. They're 11-12.
Understand that.

 

They play because the rule says they have to, not necessarily because they are good enough to be All Stars. So are kids ages 8, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, and 16. So what?

Whats your point?

 

Regular season is about participation. At my league we have enhances the MPR for regular season, as do many in our district and area. Some even mandate that kids must play a certain amount of time in the infield. When I managed teams for 13 years, all my kids played about the same amount of innings and positions. As league President for 5 years, I would implore all managers to play their kids and not just follow MPR. Our BOD did a good job of promoting giving all players fair amounts of playing time and encouraging managers to let kids play different positions and bat in different spots in the lineup.

 

All Stars is different, it's about winning, period! The 13 kids and 1AB is a joke and it puts non All Star caliber kids on teams.You can't be serious to call 1AB playing your kids.

 

In my opinion, LL puts too many restrictions and regulations on teams and managers for All Stars, resulting in kids and coaches going elsewhere. The talent level is down, and LL has seen a steady decline in enrollment for over 12 years now. Get rid of MPR for All Stars. It will result in better competition, and better games. It's just my opinion, and you can have a different one. But at least try to convince me your way is better with more than just cryptic responses.


richives

Posted 14 April 2018 - 04:56 AM

Not sure what you mean by this statement, but All Stars have bench players, too.


Yes, but ones that get to play. They're 11-12.
Understand that.

I've managed/coached 15 all-star teams (5 International Tournament and 10 "B" teams for local LL tournaments).
I'm not coming from a position of weakness or lack of knowledge.

Robin Barradio

Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:38 PM

They're the all-stars, not the some-stars.

They earned the spot on the team.
Play them.

Not sure what you mean by this statement, but All Stars have bench players, too.

 

I'll offer a couple of observations:

 

1. The 13 player and 1AB rule is an absolute joke. Most of the teams in my area (So Cal and WR) that do take 13 players, usually end up putting the 1 or 2 bubble kids  (bench players) on the team in order to give their studs more playing time. It's a calculated risk that many managers are willing to take, yet those players aren't really All Star caliber, but rather those that can play pretty well and won't hurt you.

All this rule does is give some not really All Star players a spot on the team to take advantage of a playing rule. It is anything but a participation rule. Can't for the life of me figure out why LL even came up with this ridiculous rule.

 

2. If you got rid of MPR in All Stars, it would revert back to when making the All Star team meant something. That the best players made the team, and you still had to earn playing time. It wasn't meant to be a participation thing, you either earned your spot, or you didn't. The games would be better, faster, and it would bring back those kids, parents, and coaches that have become disillusioned with the bureaucracy that LL has created. 

All Stars isn't about playing time, that's for regular season. All Stars is about working hard, earning your spot, and winning! Sorry if it hurts little Billy's feelings, but that's the way it is, and that's the way it should be!

 

The vast majority of people watching the LL WS could give a crap less about MPR. They want to see good competition and good games. Everyone knows the kid getting 1AB isn't really an All Star and is just being exploited by LL in the name of "participation." Making the All Star team and working hard, even if you don't play, will teach you more about life lessons than getting your one token at bat. It's too bad that we insist on not hurting anyone's feelings, instead of teaching our kids that if you want something, you've got to work harder that the next guy and sometimes life just ain't fair!


richives

Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:11 PM

And they wonder why LL keeps losing kids. The level of play has really tapered off in the last few years or so in my area.

Another poorly written and not very well thought out rule. They should just get rid of MPR for All Stars. I just don't understand LL's line of thinking. They say they want participation, but if you carry 13 players MPR is 1 at bat. Is that their idea of participation? I just can't believe kids not meeting MPR is such a problem that LL has to use a nuclear option.

As an umpire, I don't really give a crap if MPR is not met. Not my problem.



They're the all-stars, not the some-stars.

They earned the spot on the team.
Play them.

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