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Obstruction Award


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#1 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 05:31 PM

Friday game, August 12, not sure what little league regional...may have been Midwest or New England.
First inning single and batter-runner bumps 1st baseman rounding first.
Ball was in short right, and IMO, no chance for batter-runner to reach 2nd.
First base ump, calls time and awards batter 2nd base.
No question by defensive coach.
Do LL rules award base in situation like this?
All other leagues I have worked, is umpire judgement if they think obstructed runner would have made it to next base or bases.

#2 RSMBob

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 05:53 PM

On obstruction, there is no automatic award.
Umpire judgment.

#3 Jeremy

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:57 PM

When did he call time?...right when obstruction happened or after the play?.....either way it's judgment.

#4 Guest_Gip_*

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:25 PM

He called obstruction as it occurred...delayed dead ball.
Waited for play to finish...BR went back to first.
Called time and awarded 2nd.
Problem is he either was not aware that the ball was in short right or did not see it.
Right fielder was on the ball quickly, BR was big, slow guy with no chance of even trying for second let alone making it.

#5 Jeremy

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 08:13 PM

Here's my question, the runner might be big and slow and the hit might have been just a routine single....but what if F4 was 40-50' from B2 and F6 was sleeping on the job.....can defensive positioning (bag not covered) be a factor in giving the base to him?....not saying that happend in this case, just a hypothetical question.

#6 Guest_Bif_*

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 08:28 PM

My original question was just wanting to know if LL rules of obstruction awards are different than other organizations.
Apparently not.
Difference in judgement I guess.

#7 Jeremy

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 08:57 PM

I have a habit of hijacking threads with my stupid questions once the OP has been answered.
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#8 richives

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 09:13 PM

My original question was just wanting to know if LL rules of obstruction awards are different than other organizations.
Apparently not.
Difference in judgement I guess.


Actually yes.
"In the act of fielding" is NOT in the LL rules (or FED) but IS in OBR and NCAA.

Hurdling is legal in LL and OBR but not in FED.

#9 Guest_Neil_*

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 02:48 PM

So with umpire judgement, in this case BR can be awarded second without trying to advance? Had been explained to me otherwise from an ump...



#10 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 03:03 PM

Yes, BUT !!!

If I were the opposing manager I would ask the ump Why he awarded second.

If he said "In my judgment the runner would have made it to second if he wasn't obstructed", we're done, runner gets second.

BUT, if he said "It was obstruction and the runner automatically gets second" then, my response is "I Protest" !!!

At that point it's a mis-application of a rule, not an umpire judgment call.


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#11 amutz

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 03:11 PM

Generally I understand that runner needs to attempt to advance.  

Perhaps obstruction was SO severe runner could not reasonably attempt to advance?  

Did the runner get tripped?  



#12 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 03:21 PM

Basically, as the batter/runner got to first, F3 was standing on the bag.

The batter/runner ran squarely into F3, came off the base slightly heading towards second.

Stopped and returned to first.

 

The announcers stated something to the effect that "you can't stand on the base, you have to get out of the way of the runner."

 

BU called "time" after the play was over and sent the runner to second.

Not a call I would have made because "in my opinion" there was "no way" that the runner would have even tried for/or made second on the play.



#13 amutz

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 03:38 PM

If BR going straight through first (like legging out a single) I would not have considered putting runner on 2B.  

If rounding first (considering a double) and ran smack into 1B then maybe!  

HTBT.  

Still generally would expect a runner to attempt to advance.



#14 Plesh

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 03:49 PM

http://www.espn.com/...r/_/id/2857731/

 

Go to minute 28.



#15 Jamief

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 03:53 PM

Obstruction is always a hot topic.

I've never seen bases awarded without players trying to advance.

In fact I've seen players get obstructed, try to advance and still get called out because "in the umpires judgment" the player wouldn't have made it anyway.



#16 amutz

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 05:07 PM

I watched the replay (thanks Plesh) and awarding 2B was a poor decision.  

It was obstruction but no base should have been awarded.

 

IMO F3 went back from relay position to 1B because there was a possible force play F9-F3.    

It was a very easy ground ball play by F9, and not even remotely close to a double.



#17 Plesh

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 05:29 PM

Sure thing. And I agree.



#18 Jamief

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 01:39 PM

Knew there was a thread on this topic already.

So it came up twice last night in our first Majors District game. We play 4 pool play games with top 4 advancing.

Manager and coach knew going in this was going to be the strongest opponent in the tournemant.

Anyway, tight 1 run game and this play comes up.

Runner on first, R1. Batter hits hard line drive into RF. Gets by the RF and as Batter-Runner takes the turn at 1st she plows into F3. Umpire has Obstruction. BR stops gets up and returns to first as the ball is being gathered in by the RF.

Ball gets back into the pitcher stopping the R1 from advancing Home.

Manager / Coach argue that BR should be awarded 2nd. Umpire disagrees and leaves runner at 1st.

Here’s the question:

If BR continues to 2nd and is put out but umpire decides to remove OBS(Drops his arm) because the RF gathered the ball quickly and here’s the important part.

“In my judgement she wouldn’t have made 2nd safely absent the obstruction”.

The way i understand it she’s no longer protected.

So why would the ump call the obstruction only to reverse it?

#19 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 02:28 PM

You call Obstruction when it occurs.
The play continues.
At the end of the play you decide what impact the obstruction had on the play and rule accordingly.

In your case, with the ball getting by F9 it "sounds like" the batter/runner should have been awarded second.
If the ball was fielded cleanly by F9 I could understand not awarding second base.
Either way, it's a judgement call by the umpire.

=========
Off topic:
Jaimef, you play 4 Pool Games, so are there 5 teams, each playing the other teams once each?
If so, you play 10 games to eliminate 1 team (4 of 5 advance)?

#20 Jamief

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 05:46 PM

Yes.
District changed all the Tournaments from "Must Go 3-1" to make the elimination round to "Top 4" because we almost had a year with only 1 team attaining 3 wins.

DA wanted to change things up.
Straight double elimination was ruled out by the presidents.
So we stuck with pool play and changed the DE round to be Top 4 advancing.

It gets the teams more games.
Downside, like you said, is the logistics of it all.



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