Jump to content


Ejection/Suspension Carryover to All Stars?


35 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_RSMBob_*

Guest_RSMBob_*
  • Guests

Posted 03 July 2016 - 10:43 PM

Our District ends the The League season with a Tournament of Champions played under special games.
If a manager and player were ejected from the final Tournament of Champions game, do they have to serve the suspension in the first All-Star Tournament game or is the suspension for the next physical game played in rule 4.07 just waived?

#2 Jeremy

Jeremy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • Administrators
  • 1,334 posts
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 03 July 2016 - 11:05 PM

I believe 4.07 carries over.

#3 Lou Barbieri

Lou Barbieri

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 3,080 posts
  • LocationThe Villages, Florida

Posted 04 July 2016 - 12:31 PM

Ask your District Administrator.
He/she ran your District year end Tournament Of Champions and he/she is running your District All Star Tournament.
He/she might say the ejection penalty does not carry over, then again, he/she might say it does.

#4 Guest_RSMBob_*

Guest_RSMBob_*
  • Guests

Posted 04 July 2016 - 02:23 PM

Thanks for the replies.
Our DA is a great guy and I have an immense amount of respect for what he does for the leagues, but he has been on the side that it does not carry over, and because of that, many in our league are having a major problem with that.

#5 Lou Barbieri

Lou Barbieri

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 3,080 posts
  • LocationThe Villages, Florida

Posted 04 July 2016 - 03:20 PM

If the DA says it doesn't carry over that doesn't mean your local league still can't suspend the player and manager for a game (or more, depending on what happened).

All the DA is saying is that he is not "requiring" the suspension.

The manager/player are representing your league and, as such, are under the governance of your BOD.

Had an incident several years ago where one of our players got into a fight with a player from another team in the parking lot after the game.
Our BOD suspended our player for two games, the other League did nothing to their player.
We ended up beating them for the District Title!

#6 Plesh

Plesh

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,011 posts
  • LocationNorthern New Jersey

Posted 04 July 2016 - 06:42 PM

Our District does not carry over suspensions to the next year, but some do, and like Lou said, the local league can enforce their own punishment if they see fit.

#7 Jeremy

Jeremy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • Administrators
  • 1,334 posts
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 04 July 2016 - 07:10 PM

What gives a DA the authority to enforce 4.07 or not?

#8 Plesh

Plesh

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,011 posts
  • LocationNorthern New Jersey

Posted 04 July 2016 - 07:21 PM

Well 4.07 does say his or her team's next physically played game which wouldn't apply since the team is "disbanded" essentially after the last out of their last game.

 

In the case of not meeting mandatory play, same thing. Suspension will carry over to the next tournament level (i.e. districts --> sections), but by rule it doesn't need to carry over to the next year, that's up to the DA and/ or local league.



#9 Jeremy

Jeremy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • Administrators
  • 1,334 posts
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 04 July 2016 - 09:11 PM

They need to clear this up a bit for next year with so many people probably dual rostering.

If I get the boot on Monday in Majors can I play Tuesday for 50/70?

I still don't see how a DA or TD has any say in the matter for AllStars, it should be black or white.

#10 Lou Barbieri

Lou Barbieri

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 3,080 posts
  • LocationThe Villages, Florida

Posted 05 July 2016 - 12:20 AM

If you dual roster and a player gets ejected in a major game he is suspended from his major's team's next game, it has no effect on the his next 50/70 game.

In my opinion, 4.07 applies to your Regular Season Team, the penalty does not carry over to the Tournament (I agree with the DA).

What happens if an All Star player doesn't meet MPR in his team's last Regular Season game, are you going to make him start the first Tournament game and stay in the game till he meets MPR for the two games, I sure hope not!

#11 Jeremy

Jeremy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • Administrators
  • 1,334 posts
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 05 July 2016 - 01:39 AM

Thats fine if it doesn't carry over it doesn't carry over....As a board member I would be making a motion for the local league to not allow him to coach in game one.

#12 Dave Poe

Dave Poe

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 489 posts

Posted 07 July 2016 - 12:55 AM

IMO, it's a different team. It's a different season. One has no bearing on the other.

If a player missed MPR in your final TOC, would the requirements under "regular season" apply to the "tournament season"? No, probably not.

Instead of the focus being on the district for carrying it over or not, the attention should be on the league for naming this coach to the tournament team. Leagues can also adopt suspension policies.
  • Jeremy likes this

#13 RSMBob

RSMBob

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts

Posted 30 July 2016 - 12:46 AM

Interesting replies here. I'm of the mindset that it SHOULD carry over, especially for the player who was ejected. The reason is that ejections are an individual thing, and the player should certainly have to live with any punishment including suspension. 4.07 says the player is suspended for his or her team's next physically played game. Well, that leaves it open to interpretation as the All Star team was now his team. I'll give you another example...say in the Major Leagues a player is ejected and suspended for a fight and is traded while suspended. When he goes to the new team, the suspension doesn't go way...he serves the rest of it before he can play again.

 

Bottom line is by not enforcing the suspension you are allowing managers/coaches/players to do whatever the heck they want in their "final" game with no repercussions. Rewarding them to allow them to manage/coach/play is certainly not the justifiable end to the means.



#14 Lou Barbieri

Lou Barbieri

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 3,080 posts
  • LocationThe Villages, Florida

Posted 30 July 2016 - 01:00 AM

OK, so in Jimmy's last Regular Season game he doesn't meet MPR.
He makes the All Star team.
Does he have to Start the first game in All Stars and stay in the game until he meets MPR for the two games?

In my opinion the penalty doesn't carry over unless the BOD decides to invoke it (which they can do).

Again, that's my opinion.

I guess someone could call the Region or Williamsport for an "official" answer.

#15 RSMBob

RSMBob

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts

Posted 30 July 2016 - 01:03 AM

OK, so in Jimmy's last Regular Season game he doesn't meet MPR.
He makes the All Star team.
Does he have to Start the first game in All Stars and stay in the game until he meets MPR for the two games?

In my opinion the penalty doesn't carry over unless the BOD decides to invoke it (which they can do).

Again, that's my opinion.

I guess someone could call the Region or Williamsport for an "official" answer.

 

Yes, but in your example a player not meeting MPR has nothing in common with a player being ejected/suspended. If it does, I'm not following it.



#16 Lou Barbieri

Lou Barbieri

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 3,080 posts
  • LocationThe Villages, Florida

Posted 30 July 2016 - 01:10 AM

I'm just giving you another example of a "player penalty", if one carries over why not the other?
After all, the MPR rule also says the player's next game!
Same would go for the MPR Manager penalty wouldn't it?

Again, in my opinion they don't carry over, but the local BOD can decide to do whatever it wants.

#17 Jeremy

Jeremy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • Administrators
  • 1,334 posts
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 30 July 2016 - 03:06 AM

I would be let down by my board if they didn't make it carry over.

We live 90 miles from the DA so it's honor system no matter what the rule is.

When I was president we made a rule about AllStars at the beginning of the season, you get the boot at two games you lose your eligibility to be a manager/coach for AllStars.

#18 Jamief

Jamief

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 405 posts

Posted 30 July 2016 - 11:17 AM

Jeremy I have to disagree.

We had a coach "ejected" after their last game was completed. A few "questionable" calls like coach assistance that in the opinion of the coach affected the outcome of the game. He wasn't even addressing the umpire after the game was over but was loud enough talking with the team manager that the umpire heard him and gave the immediate ejection.

They lost and were eliminated from the DE round of district play. What does the ejection prove? What does enforcing a rediculous IMO ejection next season accomplish?

#19 Jeremy

Jeremy

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • Administrators
  • 1,334 posts
  • LocationNorthern California

Posted 30 July 2016 - 08:15 PM

I'm more talking about within the same season, going from regular season to tournament.

In your case going from tournament play then having a seven month break and back to regular season is a bit different because that manager/coach has to go through the appoint and approve process again and you better believe that manager will answer to the board (if they remember) about the ejection before the BoD votes.

The rule I was talking about above that we did in 2014 when I was president didn't make it to the next season, some umps are trigger happy or they just have it out for a manager so we went back to it being case by case but more than likely if you get booted twice in a season you won't see tournament play.

#20 richives

richives

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,122 posts
  • LocationOwego, NY

Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:19 PM

OK, so in Jimmy's last Regular Season game he doesn't meet MPR.
He makes the All Star team.
Does he have to Start the first game in All Stars and stay in the game until he meets MPR for the two games?

In my opinion the penalty doesn't carry over unless the BOD decides to invoke it (which they can do).

Again, that's my opinion.

I guess someone could call the Region or Williamsport for an "official" answer.


So if coach Adams doesn't get Johnny into the last game it is possible to require Coach Jones to start him at all-stars?
Doesn't fly with me.

And why wouldn't an all-star not meet MPR in his last regular game?
Doesn't make sense in the first place.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users