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Rules for Pool Players


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#21 coach andy

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 07:19 PM

Yeah, I know we have played in games with 8 before,
Is there a LL anywhere that obeys ALL the rules?
I know some years if we had not counted games with 8, would not have gotten to 12.

#22 Jeremy

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 07:48 PM

You didn't get to 12

I'm not a fan of the rule for LL....we've had a team drive two hours with nine only to have a girl get hurt in the first 15 minutes of the game.

#23 coach andy

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 08:08 PM

I understand the purpose behind it (ie don't have teamates or worse adults encourage kids not to show because they are perceived as not good), but I am not a fan either.
In my opinion, you need to depend on adults in the organization to be doing this for ALL the kids.
IF they are not, they will find way to weasel around no matter what rules are in place, or they will disregard and hope they do not get called out (like Lou often states, if no one complains, LL is none the wiser).
Especially if they start the game with 9+, and due to injury illness fall below.

LL has to get it's head around the fact that many leagues struggle with numbers, and most are trying to do what is right, but sometimes you have to play numbers game.
Would they rather have had two teams in our division of 14 each (we had 28 in our draft)?
That is not better for anyone.

#24 Jeremy

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 10:54 PM

Drop to 8 with an automatic out when that spot comes up....
there's no advantage at all, it's a disadvantage on both sides of the ball....
I believe it's an ASA rule.

#25 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 12:44 AM

When your President signs the LL Charter it states you will follow all LL Rules/Regulations.
When I was league President I did everything I could to make sure we did.

That said, I know leagues that don't and, as I often say, LL (Williamsport) has no way of knowing.
That doesn't mean it's right, that's just the way it is.
So, unless someone complains, ....

As for playing with 8, the rules say when you drop to 8 the game ends.
The BOD decides if it's a forfeit or if it gets resumed/finished.
Don't know of leagues that play with 8 in majors but obviously some allow it in minors.

Same goes for team rosters, rule says a minimum of 12.
If your league has 9 or 10 you need a Waiver (which many leagues don't bother to submit).
Having low numbers of players on a roster is what leads to problems like this.
With 12 on a roster this type of problem rarely happens (in my experience).

#26 coach andy

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 03:19 PM

I would love to get to 12 on our minors rosters, but we have 29 girls at present.
14 and 15 is not good for the girls, too much sitting, and makes it tough on us managers and coaches (in both games and practices).
Most of our teams across all divisions are less than 12, again, intent here is to have kids sitting less.

#27 Plesh

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 06:07 PM

Just get 1 more girl. 3 teams of 10.
One always has the day off and provides pool players if necessary.

#28 Jamief

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 06:24 PM

It's too bad you're stuck in this situation.
Sounds like it started at the top levels.

I know I'm preaching to the choir but 1 juniors team with 12 and you then have those 6 LA12s playing majors where they belong and it trickles down to minors.

But agree 10 is better than 14.

#29 coach andy

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 06:52 PM

everyone is in such a rush to move kids up, and I think part of it is trying to get girls into softball as soon as possible. because of parent complaints about travel (we only had two teams each year, interleagues), we stopped girls coach pitch, and have the girls at this age playing baseball, but they are letting 7s with one year of coach pitch move to minors softball. I think they are worried that 7s and 10s in same division is problematic.

of course now we are probably going back to interleaguing softball (at least at majors and below) out of district, which is actually closer for us, much less travel, might be the time to start coach pitch softball back up. think I will suggest that to the mom who was bending my ear about wanting her 6 year old in minors (just out of tee ball), had to be very careful not to let on to her that minors was short players, because she would get really insistent then. she can try to get coach pitch softball going again.

#30 Jamief

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 07:57 PM

I hear you.

We've moved the other way. Went to interleague kid pitch minors 4 years ago and added interleague coach pitch 2 years ago and haven't looked back.

The worst was the year I was running inhouse "instructional" and had 6-9s and a couple brand new 10s. It was a train wreck. That was the last year we played kid pitch minors in house and they pushed to get 4 teams. Theory was 4 weaker teams would be better than 3 good teams in terms of scheduling.

So by the time the instructional teams get formed we have the rest of the girls 6-10 that didn't get drafted to kid pitch. Way to large an age spread. The weak 10s were self conscience of the strong 7s that have been playing for 3 years. And the forget about the parent complaints.

So fast forward to now. We went from 2 levels of interleague and 2 house levels to today.

Seniors / majors / AAA / AA / Farm A. All interleague. Been much better for retention and better games across all levels.

#31 coach andy

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 08:19 PM

I would love to see us simply go back (in baseball and softball) to coach pitch (7/8, some 6s), minors (9/10s, some 8s), and majors (11/12, some 10s), etc. on up through seniors.
The "somes" would be decided upon tryouts, and only to get decent numbers, and never if they are not ready for the level (ie two years ago, there were 5 10s in majors, across 3 teams, to get to 11 I think).
When we had that, we normally had 2-3 teams in each division, interleagued. but then softball admin at the time (since left), insisted we interleague with our district, even though all the other teams were further away than the teams we had been interleaguing with (45 min vs 15 min rides).
Parents of 7/8s complained, as a 6 pm away game start meant not home until like 8:30 at best, and they had left their house at 5.
Made it tough to get them to bed at reasonable hour for the age when you add in bath, eating, possible HW, etc.

#32 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 11:15 PM

Every year our District would have a Baseball Inter-League scheduling meeting and a Softball Inter-League scheduling meeting.
The leagues decided on what games they wanted, the District did not "set" the schedules, the District simply scheduled what the league's wanted and then Posted the Schedules on the District Website.
We had Inter-League in everything from Tee-Ball through Big League.
Leagues that were close to each other often played during the week (that way the players got home at a reasonable hour).
Leagues further apart played on Saturdays (older divisions often played double-headers to make the trip worthwhile).

The small leagues needed Inter-League games, even in Tee-Ball, but even the "bigger" leagues participated just to give their kids the opportunity to "travel" a few times during the year.

#33 coach andy

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Posted 26 February 2016 - 02:28 PM

yes, but our softball admin at the time told the district(s) involved that we wanted to play in district.  as it turns out, 2/3 of our district is a 40-50 minute drive for most of our league members, while a few neighboring leagues in a different district were only 15-20 minute.  doesn't sound like a lot, but when you factor in round trip, for 6-8 yr olds, on school nights, it was tough.  I think he was so far removed (his girls were long out of the league) from working direclty with the younger kids he kind of forgot to take what that type of travel meant into account.  not a bad guy, just one decision not really thought out.  but unfortunately it led to the BOD shutting down softball coach pitch, instead of just oging back to interleaguing with closer but out of district leages (which had worked well the year before).

 

now we have decided to interleague with out of district but closer leagues again at least through majors.  think juniors are still going to go in district, but a little easier for these girls and families to handle extra travel.



#34 Jeremy

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 03:54 AM

You should make an all girl CP baseball team.
I've pushed for an all girl Tball team for a few years now.....the only downside in my case is that there might be an odd amount of girls to form teams, some would be on the all girl team(s) and some wouldn't and I'm not sure how the ones that didn't get placed on the all girl team would feel....that and my board doesn't share my opinion on it.

#35 coach andy

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:02 PM

would our minors still be competitve with following rules mods, this is what our softball admin thinks rules are going to be in the district we interleague with

 

3 (yes three, no typo) run limit per inning, probably last two opened up to 6

 

no coach pitching (ie we will walk in runs)

 

not certain about steal rules

 

no IFR, no D3K

 

foresee pretty much every game being a tie, with each team maxing out every inning.  might be easier to declare winner as the team that actually records most defensive outs in a game

 

this is insane. I know I will end up at least one game with a score book of nothing but BB and steals, no balls in play for either team.  girls will be taught to keep bat on their shoulders.

 

If this is how it goes, I know I will pull my team together after every game and if we scored more than the other team less runs scored on walks or stealing home, I will tell them they won.  I am going to insist my girls swing the bat unless pitch is really bad.  

 

they need to play, not stand around and watch one girl have a "catch" for 1.5-2 hours.

 

sorry, had to vent, hope it is not this bad.



#36 Guest_Lou Barbieri_*

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:22 PM

Plesh, I agree that in general coach/machine pitch is non-competitive but some I know of are competative.

 

Same goes for the youngest player pitch division, I know of some leagues where that level is "noncompetitive" and some where it is "competitive".

 

It all depends on the league and how they set up their "minors".

 

To me, based on his description, I think coach andy is in a competitive minors division and, as such, should not play with less than 9 players.



#37 coach andy

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 02:46 PM

3 run per inning limit competitive?

Just seems contradictory to me.  

Why don't we just fill in a score book with an imaginary batting order, and 3 runs on 24 balls (6 batters) per inning, and hold a practice scrimmage instead.  

More fun and exciting for girls to be certain that watching 3 runs get walked in every half inning.



#38 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 03:59 PM

First of all, as you probably know, the run limit in minors is 5 not 3.
Your league (District) could lower it to 3 since it doesn't violate the LL 5 run limit.
'LL says you can only "open up" scoring for the last inning.
To open it up for the last two innings your league (District) would need a Waiver.
If the pitching is as bad as you say why open the scoring up for two innings?

Second, are you saying that ALL of the pitchers are so bad that every batter is going to walk?
To the best of my memory, I have never seen a half inning where every batter walked until the run limit was reached not even in first year player pitch!
Don't get me wrong, at that level I've seen plenty of walks and the game does "drag".
As for walking every batter, seems to me it's time to teach some pitching skills!
Yes, I know that pitching is very difficult, especially in the younger ages, but you have to teach pitchers how to throw strikes.

Hopefully, when you actually start playing games, it won't be as bad as you fear it is going to be!
GOOD LUCK

#39 coach andy

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 04:33 PM

probably I exaggerated a little bit

 

I am saying once girls realize the team can score runs on walks, they will stop swinging (some girls go to plate looking for walk as it is).  without some swings and misses, I can easily seethe majority of half innings where you get to 3 runs with no ball sin play.  that is not softball, that is game of catch with 7 spectators dressed the same on the field.  saw this in boys minors when my son played approx 6 yrs ago.  his team WON a game where they did not put a single ball in play in fair territory.  walks, steals, maybe a HBP or two was the extent of the action.  everyone walked away saying what the hell was that?  Literally every batter held the bat on their shoulder for their entire at bat.

 

you're right, we need to develop pitching, and we are, but I think no walking in runs helps this.  it takes a little of the pressure off (these are 7-9 yr olds mostly), which will help them relax and pitch.  we also limit steals home to one per inning, again, to help the pitchers relax and concentrate on throwing some strikes, rather than obsess about runner on 3B.  (One coach complains because they cannot throw strikes, my response is find some parent who can, get them background checked.  gotta be one parent out of 10 that can slingshot a strike in.)

 

I foresee very few innings less than 3 runs.  normally how it worked with 5 run limit was that team that allowed less 5 run innings won, I would say 2 out of 3 ended via run limit, not 3 outs.

 

actually what I would love to see is end inning on combined 5 runs/outs limits, or 3 outs, whichever comes first.  this helps reward defense that gets some outs, vs defense that simply allows the 5 recording no outs.



#40 coach andy

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Posted 01 March 2016 - 04:36 PM

I thought there was no run limit on competitive minors?  5 works for me, I like 5.  good number, keeps it in hand and game moving, gives defenses a chance to record some outs, lets hot offensive team get some thing a little more on the board.  3 is just plain ridculous.





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