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Rules for Pool Players


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#1 coach andy

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 03:46 PM

can anyone summarize the list of pool play rules?  trying to send email to parents about pool play, and want to summarize rules as best I can, do not have 2016 rule book yet.

 

I know a pool player cannot pitch.

 

I also believe they cannot bat above a certain position in the order (And we do CBO, so no issues with # of at bats).

 

Are they relegated only to OF on defense?  Is there a max # of innings they can play (we might be pulling pool players so we have 11 for each game, this is softball, we play 10 in field, and worry is always someone is no show with no warning)?

 

Thanks



#2 clawdad

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 04:02 PM

This is copied directly from this year's LL rule book
Guidelines:
1. The league's player agent will create and run the pool. The league's player agent will use the pool to assign players within their respective division to teams that are short of players on a rotating basis.
2. Managers and/or coaches will not have the right to randomly pick and choose players from the pool within their respective division.
3. Under this option, when a player participates in a game on a team other than his/her own team, such player will not be permitted to pitch in that game.
4. Pool players that are called and show up at the game site must play at least nine consecutive defensive outs and bat once.

Summarized: they can't pitch but can play any other position. Must play 9 consecutive defensive outs & bat once. They can bat in any spot in the order.
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#3 amutz

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 04:03 PM

The National rules I'm aware of:
- Pool players must come from the same division; minors cannot pool play for Majors
- Pool players bat at bottom of order (after regular team members)
- Specific Pool players cannot be requested by a manager. The player agent selects/assigns.

Just saw Clawdad's rules copied straight from 'the book' - so ignore my note - I'll only add that some local leagues restrict pool players to outfield but I'm not a fan of that.

#4 coach andy

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 04:11 PM

Thanks.

I think I will make as my own rule of thumb they bat last (we use CBO, so they will get same number of at bats within one as rest of team), and will play at least 4 out of 6 innings, with no more than 2 in IF (to be fair to my own girls mainly).  

If I have 11, I will sit pool play 1st and 4th innings, think this should be good balance.  



#5 amutz

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 04:43 PM

Can you play with 9?  

If so I'd be tempted to shoot for a roster of 10 and avoid benching players rather than calling up to get 11 players.



#6 Guest_Lou Barbieri_*

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 04:45 PM

Clawdad basically gave you the LL requirements.
As long as you meet those requirements you are fine.
I do know of Leagues that have Local Rules that say things like a Pool Player also cannot catch or play short stop or a Pool Player must bat in the bottom one-third of the line-up.

Coach Andy, you said was "If I have 11, I will sit pool play in 1st and 4th innings."
If you have 11 WHY are you getting a Pool Player (or does the 11 include a pool player)?

Pool Play is for "when teams face a shortage of rostered players for a regular season game", if a team has 11 players, in my opinion, it does not have a shortage of players.
Personally, I don't think 10 is a shortage of players but maybe that's just me!

My old league had a Local Rule which stated a team could only get a pool player(s) if it had 9 or fewer players and it could only get the number of players that would bring the total to 10 (eg: if you had 9 you could get 1, if you had 8 you could get 2, ...).
Also, a pool player could not play more than a regular rostered player.

Playing with 9 is a big risk, if one gets injured or ejected and you drop to 8, game over, potential forfeit.
Playing with 10 is, in the vast majority of cases, fine since rarely do you lose two players during a game.

====================
The "hidden" problem with Pool Players is, for example, you're the manager of a team and after each game/practice you ask your players if any of them will not be at your next game.
So, you have 12 players and Jimmy and Johnny Jones tell you they will be out of town and Billy Smith says he has a school function.
That drops you from 12 to 9 so you call the Player Agent and ask for two Pool Players.
Now you get to the game and the Jones brothers show up so now you have 13 players (11 plus 2 Pool Players) and the two Pool Players each have to play 9 defensive outs.
Heaven forbid that the 2 Pool Players are "lesser skilled" compared to your normal players.
I guess that's why managers get the big bucks!

#7 coach andy

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 05:24 PM

I have 9 on my roster, we play 10 in field, CBO so at bats not really an issue.

 

My big worry is that I have 9, ask for one pool player, and then someone on my team doesn't show.  Can play with 9, but what if someone then gets hurt?  Once I get to know parents (I have a whole new team pretty much), and see how well they let me know about no shows and lateness, can scale it back to just enough for 10.

 

my defensive strategy with 10 in field is to play LCF and RCF deep and somewhat wide, RF and LF shallow and close to lines, to back up throws (stress point is every one moves on every ball in play, and if there are baserunners, on every pitch).

 

just me, I am a worrywart



#8 coach andy

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 05:25 PM

Can actually still play with 8 as well, but if ball gets in a gap, automatic HR pretty much.

#9 Jamief

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Posted 22 February 2016 - 11:08 PM

We've used pool players successfully for the last few years.
Biggest problem is when the team needs a kid at the last minute and it's a mad dash to find a player.

I've never been a fan of using pool players to get to 10 or even 11.
Then again we only play 9.

#10 coach andy

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 04:20 PM

What's really funny is our two juniors teams each have 9 girls!  

When they play each other, what do they do if someone cannot make it (other commitment, sick, hurt, etc.) and they are playing each other?



#11 amutz

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 04:43 PM

What's really funny is our two juniors teams each have 9 girls!  

When they play each other, what do they do if someone cannot make it (other commitment, sick, hurt, etc.) and they are playing each other?

 

That's rough.  

I'd probably call it a scrimmage, and rotate kids from the other team into the field.  

Could even play it with three squads.  

Example 5x5x5 with 15 kids, two teams in the field and one team batting.

It's a fun format that I've used a lot in practices.  


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#12 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 05:13 PM

Amutz, the problem is, to qualify for the Tournament you need GAMES !!!

 

Coach Andy, I know it wasn't your decision but I would tell whoever set up two Junior teams with only 9 on each team that he/she is an "idiot".

Then again, as I have said before, I don't generally have a problem speaking my mind !!!

By the way, did the league get a Waiver for rosters with only 9 players?

 

I hope you play Inter-League, at least that way you could use Pool Players.

What I would try to do is set up some games during the week where Team A (with some Pool Players) plays on one night and Team B (with some Pool Players) play on a different night.

 

You could also do Saturday Inter-League Double-Headers.

Game 1: Your Team A ( with a couple of Pool Players from your Team B ) against Team X.

Game 2: Your Team B ( with a couple of Pool Players from your Team A ) against Team Y.

 

Of course, the best solution is for your two teams to "actively" pursue getting a few more players to sign up so you can get 10 or 11 on each roster.



#13 coach andy

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 06:09 PM

Preaching to the choir Lou on the setup, especially since 12 YOs form 2/3 of the two teams in juniors.  have no idea about waivers, probably not, never even had a formal BOd vote on the splits.  

Softball admin just keeps everything vague and pretty much does what he wants.  

I am learning, next year, I will insist on a clear, formal vote on # of teams at each level, based on #of girls registered.

 

We are interleaguing in softball in all divisions, and will use pool players for these obviously.  and in minors, at least we have three teams, so when we play in house, always pool players available.  of course how they get assigned in that situation I can see being a big brouhaha (ie say the next two on the pool list are a 5* and a 1*, who gets who).

 

We are actively pursuing more players at all levels, especially juniors and minors, might even get a couple more juniors (and heck maybe enough for a senior squad) once HS tryouts are over.

 

All Stars selection going to be a complete mess.  You have all those 12s in juniors, many of whom the majors coaches don't know (both new to division, moving up from minors).  same scenario as two years ago, only now 10 or so 12s playing up, two years ago was 5 10s playing up in majors, none made all stars (and who played up was determined by majors tryouts and draft).

 

I might honestly suggest we not field all stars.  our softball teams in recent past have continually gotten thumped, in part because selection process is so screwed up, and the smaller talent base.  and the coach selection process is basically finding someone willing to do it.



#14 coach andy

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 06:17 PM

I forgot to mention the really fun thing, softball dictators niece is on my team.

Thought long and hard about the pick, but I picked last (random draw), and she was only proven/consistent pitcher left.  and he is her ride most times.  

Good thing is this means he will be at lots of games, because when all is said and done, he knows the game and how to teach it, is good with the girls.  

Will draft him a lot to help out.



#15 richives

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Posted 23 February 2016 - 10:02 PM

Can actually still play with 8 as well, 

Not in LL rules



#16 Guest_Lou Barbieri_*

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 01:22 PM

Coach Andy: look at 1.01 in the LL Rulebook.

Competitive minors and above are required to have 9 players, cannot play with 8 or less.

Tee-Ball and non-competitive (instructional) minors can play with less than 9.

 

 

 



#17 coach andy

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 02:56 PM

what is criteria for minors being competitive vs non-competitive, this will be our issue at minors really.



#18 Plesh

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 03:14 PM

Ones that keep score/ standings or not.



#19 coach andy

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 04:31 PM

assume ours would be competitive, we keep score, report results to our district rep, but we only have two teams, probably will not crown a division winner.  within the leagues we interleague in (not necessarily our district), we will probably crown a "group" champ, most likely via a mini tournament in place of last 2-3 reg season games, every team makes it, some may get a bye, depending on number of teams.



#20 Plesh

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 05:18 PM

Non-competitive is a coach/ machine pitch division. What you are describing is competitive.





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