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Out of Boundary Players


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#1 MyThreeSons

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 03:18 AM

Our league just merged with a Cal Ripken League and they are now under Little League.
What are the consequences of our league taking the Cal Ripken players that are now out of boundary players per little league rules?
Our league is saying we have to take them since they have been playing in town for years.
I am just wondering about legal consequences if a player gets hurt.

What are your thoughts on this?

#2 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 03:44 AM

The players can play in your league IF they meet residency requirements (parent lives within your boundaries or player goes to school within your boundaries), otherwise you need an Out-Of-Boundary Waiver approved by Williamsport.

Do these players live/go to school in the boundaries of another league?
If not, you might ask for a boundary change to expand your boundaries to cover the areas where they live.

You can't just sign them up and let them play in your league if they don't meet residency requirements.

From the LL Rulebook Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs):
Q: Can a child who does not qualify within a league's boundary play in that league for the regular season only, provide he/she is not eligible for Tournament Play (all stars)?
A: No. However, the local league may request a waiver, listing all circumstances that warrant such a waiver. Only the Charter Committee in Williamsport can make the final decision. (See "CHARTER COMMITTEE/WAIVERS OF RULES AND REGULATIONS: in the previous section). If the Charter Committee votes to grant a waiver, the District Administrator will be informed in writing. Waivers, if granted, are for the current season only.

===========================
My old District had a "Form" for Out-Of-Boundary Waiver Requests. It used to be posted on their Website but it's no longer there (they have taken a lot of the old stuff off the Website).
I have a COPY of the Form and if you want one just send me a "message" with your e:Mail address and I will send a copy to you.

#3 Guest_MyThreeSons_*

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 03:51 AM

They don't meet the residency requirements, but our league is looking to let them play for the regular season only

#4 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 04:02 AM

You still need an Out-Of-Boundary Waiver approved by the Charter Committee in Williamsport.

It is against LL Regs/Rules to allow a player to play in your league that doesn't meet your residency requirements unless you have a Waiver.

As per the FAQ I posted above, such Waivers are normally for Regular Season Only and only for the Current Season.

That said, in recent years many Waivers have been for Full Participation (Regular Season and Tournament Play) and some have been for the player's career.

#5 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 01:46 PM

OK... let me understand this fully.

 

League A was LL.

 

League B was Cal and has converted. 

 

Did League A give territory to League B in order for it to charter in LL?

If so, the kids that played LAST SPRING (not fall or anything else) in that area can remain in your league on a regulation II(d) claim.

HOWEVER, that had to be your territory a year ago.

 

If you were taking kids out of your territory previously (regardless of whether it belongs to League B now or not), you have been in the wrong.

 

The only other save that you would have is if any of those kids could be claimed using scholastic enrollment.

 

If they are out of bounds and don't have anything above, you have to petition for Waivers on each of them and determine whether you want to ask for RSO or full eligibility.

But I will tell you that if you have a league that just flipped from Cal and these kids are wanting to come to you, the Charter Committee might have a hard time cutting the legs out from a league that is newly flipped over to LL.



#6 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 02:21 PM

Mike, the way I read this was the two leagues "merged" - no one gave up territory to anyone.

 

I think it was like this:

Town A and a LL and a CR League. 

Each league had it's own set of boundaries from it's organization and the boundaries of the two leagues were not the same.

The CR League "joined" (merged) with the LL so they are now one.

 

Problem is, some of the kids from the CR League do NOT live or go to school within the boundaries of the LL.

 

The LL is saying that since these kids played in the CR League they should now be allowed to play in the LL (since the CR doesn't exist anymore).

They are asking if it's OK to just let these kids play "for Regular Season Only" even though they don't meet the LL residency requirements.

 

My answer is NO, they need to get Out-Of-Boundary Waivers or get Williamsport to approve revising their boundaries to include the area where these kids live.

 

One thing I'm not sure of is if any of these kids live within the boundaries of another (different) Little League.

If they do, the league wouldn't be able to expand their boundaries into that area since it's "owned" by another LL.

It also means that for their Out-Of-Boundary Waivers they would need a letter from the other league giving their position on "releasing" the players. 



#7 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 03:05 PM

It would depend on the grounds established by the Charter Committee.

When a league flips on its own, they are usually allowed to keep the kids they previously had regardless of boundaries as established.

That was the flap that arose surrounding Taney because they had kids from all over the city of Philadelphia, but were given a three-year grace for those kids that had been in the program prior to becoming LL.

In essence, they were given a blanket II(d) for them.

 

In the case you are describing... if that is what it is, that could be similar, but could also be a little more dicey.  



#8 Guest_MyThreeSons_*

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:25 PM

There is no LL in the town where the out of bounday players live.
The league is not interested in expanding the boundary.
They are looking to just have the CR players play for the regular season in the LL since they played in town before.

What would be the risk without a waiver?

#9 amutz

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 07:52 PM

If the league accepts out of boundary players, they are in violation of the rules of their charter.
I think unless someone complains, no impact.

if the league accepts an out of boundary player AND puts an out of boundary player on any allstar team, that roster should not be approved and that team cannot play.
If they somehow get to play they can be disqualified.
Further action could be taken...

If the kids attend a school located within the boundary of the league - then the kids are good as is, no waiver needed.

#10 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 09:57 PM

Your President signs your LL Charter which says you will follow all LL Rules/Regulations.
That said, LL has no idea you are signing up OOB players.
Now, if someone complains then all bets are off, LL could do anything, up to and including revoking the Charter (which I doubt they would do).

One other thing, if a player is hurt this might be an Insurance issue.

Not sure why the league does not want to expand and have larger boundaries but since they don't, my advice, apply for the Waivers.
Also, I'm a little surprised the players agree to "Regular Season Only" - they agreed to give up the possibility of playing All Stars?

As I previously posted, send me a PM and I will e:Mail you an OOB Waiver Request Form you can use.
If it were me, I'd request "Full Participation".

#11 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 09:18 PM

I am still confused with where the Ripken league folds into this, though.
Did the leagues merge with no boundary adjustment?
If so, what did the Charter Committee say about those kids already enrolled in the Ripken league?
Does the Charter Committee even know?
Or did this "merger" only occur on paper in the way of facilities?

#12 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 10:03 PM

Mike, here's what I think happened.
Town/area had a LL and CR league.
The CR league had "larger" boundaries than the LL.
The CR league "disbanded/joined" the local LL.
So the kids from the CR league are signing up with the LL but some of them are Out-Of-Boundary for the LL.

I don't think the local league has contacted Williamsport.
I think they are just planning to let the OOB CR kids play LL for the "Regular Season Only".

If it were me I'd request an OOB Waiver for all of those former CR players explaining what happened and I'm 99.99% sure it would get approved and I think the players would probably get Full Participation (Regular Season and Tournament Play).

#13 Guest_MyThreeSons_*

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 04:25 PM

Does anyone know how long an approval takes for an out of boundary waiver for regular season only?

#14 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 09:44 PM

The Charter Committee generally meets weekly.
Work with your DA to get the request e:mailed/faxed to Wiiliamsport as quickly as possible.
If another league is involved, make sure you get their opinion in writing and it gets forwarded with the Waiver Request.

Wait for the Waiver to get approved.
If you let the player tryout and get drafted you could be in trouble if the Waiver is rejected.
The manager is going to cry foul, especially if the player was a first or second round pick.



#15 Plesh

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 12:43 PM

I know for us, the East Region generally emails us back within a couple of hours when we submit waiver requests, however, it may vary in different locations.



#16 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 12:55 AM

Charter Committee typically meets on Tuesday afternoons.
However, just because you have it in your region staff's office on Monday, don't expect it to be heard that week.
Region staff has to prepare the case to go in front of the committee... and if it is a complicated case, it could take up to a week to get on the agenda.

#17 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 27 February 2016 - 01:16 AM

I agree with Mike, as I said, the Committee meets once a week.

If the Eastern Region answers Waiver Requests in an hour or two, it seems they may answer them on their own without waiting for the next Charter Committee Meeting.

I'd say I'm surprised a Region would do that but recently nothing some of the Regions do surprises me!!!

#18 Plesh

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 01:25 PM

Yeah, I'm assuming East Region answers many of their own, since like I said, we never wait more than a couple of hours for a response.



#19 Guest_Lou Barbieri_*

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 02:14 PM

2016 Baseball Rulebook, Page 11, Frequently Asked Questions:

 

Q: Can a child who does not qualify within a league's boundary play in that league for the regular season only, provided he/she is not eligible for Tournament Play (all stars)?

A: No. However, the local league may request a waiver, listing all circumstances that warrant such a waiver.  Only the Charter Committee in Williamsport can make the final decision....

 

By the way, this is NOT new, it's been this way "for ages".

 

So, it "appears" the Eastern Region may be over-stepping its authority !!!    :lol:

 

Of course, on the other hand, maybe Williamsport has given the authority to approve these Waivers to the Regions and they just haven't updated the Rulebook (not exactly unheard of).



#20 Plesh

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Posted 29 February 2016 - 02:27 PM

I think WP has probably given the regions the ability to approve/ deny the more simple waivers without having to add to the pile on their desks at The Hill.

 

For example, the waivers like allowing 11 kids on a team, having the Player Agent be able to coach, have more than 50% of BOD coaches (last 3 waivers we requested) are kind of "no-brainers" and the East Region got back to us quickly, presumably without asking the CC.

 

I'm sure they send the more "complicated" waivers to the CC (OOB waiver, combined league, etc.).





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