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Tournament Fee Increased!


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#1 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 04:17 PM

In case you missed the December 29th announcement, the LL Tournament Fee was increased $50.00 per team !!!

www.littleleague.org/media/llnewsarchive/2015/September-December/tournament-fee-increase.htm

#2 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 05:50 PM

Were we still at $50, Lou?
I thought we were either $75 or $100.

For those that aren't aware, in the last few years, LLHQ has increased the amount of money funneling back to the locals for tournament expenses.
It used to be only the mileage rates periodically went up.
However, two years ago, each regional site hosted by a non-regional center began receiving a $5000 host stipend, which is huge for those folks.
Giving kudos to the Southeast staff, the region hosts have been told to pay for four or five rooms per team out of that stipend... whereas most regionals in the last decade had stopped paying for rooms as they were losing anywhere from $2-10K annually.

In addition, last year, LL began paying a travel stipend for world series umpires.
If you have ever umpired a regional or world series, you know that it can get expensive.
I think the stipend is set at $400 for each world series umpire.

Last year's new TV deal began the funding of some of it.
My guess is that the projections are money will dry up quicker than anticipated and they are taking steps to make sure the plan stays viable.
People need to know, however, that this fund is NOT going into the pockets of anyone at HQ.
The tournament fund pays for travel and hosting expenses and is separate from the rest of the HQ operating budget.

#3 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 10:00 PM

Mike, I stick up for LL as much as most, maybe more.
That said, I think this is a mistake, it hurts the small/poorer leagues.
$50 is bad enough, $75 or $100 would really have been a problem (in my opinion).

The small leagues now end up "paying more" for things they rarely, if ever, experience (for example, money for lodging at a Regional or World Series).

LL made a big deal about helping leagues by reducing the Charter Fee.
Now, for small leagues, they take that savings back (and then some) by increasing the Tournament Fee.
The bigger leagues still save money but the smaller ones don't.

I guess the small/poor leagues could save money by not entering The Tournament.😀

#4 Jeremy

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 12:18 AM

What about balls at the district level?...
Do all districts make teams bring 1-2 dozen balls for All-Stars?

As a league we play our season using balls that run about $45 a dozen, for TOCs and AllStars we have to buy balls that run $80 per dozen....
Softballs even run more and I can never find the right 11".....
When it's all done we spend about $1000 on tournament balls and rarely make it to a forth game in a DE bracket.

#5 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 12:32 AM

In my old District, each team brought 2 new balls and 2 used balls to each District Tournament Game.
If more balls were needed the Host League provided them (usually used).

A lot of 4 team Pools (3 games for each team) so if you didn't advance you didn't need to supply a lot of balls.
The further you advanced (played more games), the more balls you had to provide.

Seemed a fair way to do it.

By the way, the District often bought most/all the Tournament balls (discount for big order) and the District would sell the balls to the leagues "at cost".
It saved the leagues a few bucks.

Did the same for the Regular Season.

#6 Jamief

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 01:16 AM

Jeremy: I've found the Dudley 11" or 12" leather are the best.

With this increase it puts the cost up to $175 per team if I recall correctly.
Thought it was $125 last season.

We put in 2/3 teams each year.
Not a deal breaker as long as we still get pool play.
If it ever goes to DE for District play I think we'd find less participation.

The increase may be the last straw for leagues that were on the fence.
They may decide that it's just not worth it.

#7 amutz

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 03:08 PM

$200 per team according to the news release.
We also bring two dozen balls per team to District, which cost about $100 per team.
Not cheap perhaps but I think its fair for the experience of being in the Tournament, even if it ends at Districts.
I can imagine leagues sending fewer teams though.

#8 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:35 PM

Different districts handle items such as game balls different ways.
Some of that depends on the size of your bracket and how many sites you are using as hosts.

I get what you are saying, Lou. But for a long time, we received two dozen Wilson baseball and NOTHING else for hosting a 12-team regional that we were expected to house up to 11 of those teams. How did we become host? Because the previous host went virtually BANKRUPT in only a few years. We were one of the last to foot the bill for everyone. When I left the regional, we had the teams a $94/night rate that included breakfast and fed them another meal at the field each day. Even with the host honorarium going to $1000, it didn't even cover the umpire rooming expenses.

I have a league that spent nearly six-figures sending teams to TOSC, Regional and World Series competition last year. Now, I have told that president repeatedly that they were too inclusive in what the league was willing to pay for and he has since seen the light... after having to bust his tail fundraising for the last six months.

Flights have gotten harder and harder for LLHQ to book for World Series teams and, as a result, I have seen more flexibility on travel in recent times. We used to always fly teams from the regional site. They weren't allowed to go home. I've seen that change in some cases. They also had to fly back to the same site... so if a team from Pittsburgh won our regional, they flew out of Philly and back to Philly and then had to find a way back to Pittsburgh (usually their own cars still parked at our fields). Post 9-11, travel was a nightmare. My last few years, we had more flexibility as we talked about travel plans with the HQ staff, although our calendars and deadlines were getting tightened in other ways.

I am pretty sure, though, we weren't still at $50 per team. I thought it went to $75 a while ago and may have gone up again recently before this. That said, I could see not charging as much for the 10s and 11s since they stop at the state tournament level "officially".

But, as I previously stated, this is all money that is going back to local leagues for the most part.

#9 Jamief

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:36 PM

Thanks, I wasn't positive.
At 200 I could definitely see plenty of leagues not sending teams.
Those leagues that added 10/11s may rethink it now. ;).

I'm not sure what the 200 gets us.
We hosted over 20 games last season including district and divisional rounds.
Then we had separate payment for umpires and district dues that go for things like banners and pins.
We didn't see a penny of the tourney registration fees.

Best I can tell the 200 goes to LL then gets paid out for levels beyond district play but only for mileage over 150 round trip, and for housing at regional levels.
So in our district alone we paid for 45 teams at 150 per team or $6,750.
Of those teams, 5 went to Divisional rounds and no further. 2 went directly to sectional play and no further.

None of the advancing teams were eligible for mileage payments.
Soooo were did that $6,750 from these entry fees go?
Not back to our district.

An additional $2250 gets pulled out of our local leagues this year IF the same amount of teams enter.

I understand the regionals and WS are expensive but it's the little guy that's paying the way.
I suspect other district across the country are in the same boat.

#10 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 05:55 PM

Previous fee was $150... so we are going up $50 for 2016.
I just confirmed that.

Jamie... everyone leaving your district gets mileage money when they travel more than 150 miles.
So unless you have a really small section, that money starts coming back in some form.
Even if it is just that $150 for the one round-trip event.
It is a reverse revenue share... the further you go, the more you receive back.
You still won't get all of your expenses back.
But every little bit helps.

Your district treasury should be paying for pins and flags.
If you are choosing to pay umpires... I can't help you there.
That's a local preference.

Keep in mind that the teen levels can charge admission fees.
Further, some areas have begun charging "parking fees" as a form of admission.
Can't say I am in favor of it... but LLHQ hasn't come down hard on it, yet, in favor of the old pass the hat collection.

#11 Dave Poe

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:10 PM

No getting away from pool play now at districts.
$200 for the team plus some leagues charge players to play all stars.
2 and BBQ has no place at districts any longer
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#12 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 10:19 PM

Ok, time for me to get crazy again !!!

First, the Tournament Fee for the 9-10s and 10-11s should probably be "half-price"!
As far as LL (Williamsport) is concerned these Divisions stop at the State level so LL spends no money for Regionals or a WS for these Divisions.
Why should they be charged the same fee as Divisions that go all the way to a WS?

Second, in "my opinion", as I stated above, it's not fair that small leagues pay the same as large leagues.
It is very rare that a small league makes it to States let alone a Regional or a WS.
Their fees are supporting the larger leagues that advance that far.

So, how about basing the Tournament Fee on the number of Chartered Teams a league has in that Division?
Example:
You have 2 Major BB teams your Tournament Fee for your 11-12 team is 2x $50 = $100.
You have 10 Major BB teams your Tournament Fee for your 11-12 team is 10 x $50 = $500.

Not sure that $50 would be the correct "fee" but I'm sure LL could figure out the correct fee so that they collect the money they need.
Who knows, the fee could even be different for the different Divisions.

Of course, this would never get approved, but I like to dream !
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#13 Jeremy

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 02:25 AM

No getting away from pool play now at districts.
$200 for the team plus some leagues charge players to play all stars.
2 and BBQ has no place at districts any longer

I think DE is the best way for a bunch of reasons...
but when you look at it from a money standpoint, $100 per game and $40 worth of balls really sucks for the two and out teams and it helps make a good case for PP......
uniform cost is what pisses me off about All-Stars, but that's a local issue.

#14 richives

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 03:32 PM

First, the Tournament Fee for the 9-10s and 10-11s should probably be "half-price"!
As far as LL (Williamsport) is concerned these Divisions stop at the State level so LL spends no money for Regionals or a WS for these Divisions.
Why should they be charged the same fee as Divisions that go all the way to a WS?

 

 

So have an entry fee per level. Go tot the next level - pay the fee for that level.

 

But it could be getting expensive for those who advance.

 

So lets leave it as is - everyone antes up.



#15 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 05:36 PM

To Rich's point... we have already had teams withdraw from a regional because they couldn't afford to go... or got there and ran out of money and had to go home.

 

You haven't heard about it, but I know of multiple instances of it in the teenage divisions within the last five years. So let's do what we can to prevent that from happening anymore.



#16 Guest_Lou Barbieri_*

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 05:54 PM

Again, I have no problem with providing "adequate funding" for the Tournament, I just think it needs to be "fair" and in "my opinion" charging small leagues (who will rarely if ever get any money back) the same fee as large league (who have a much better chance of getting at least some money back) is not "fair".

 

I know there isn't a snowball's chance in you know where that this will change but that doesn't mean it's right !!!      ;o)



#17 B_Hanlon

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 06:27 PM

At our November Regional DA meeting one of the more outspoken D.A.'s from NJ absolutely blasted the staff about what he already thought were exorbitant fees for the tourney.
I would not want to be in the room when he opened this email adding another $50 per team.

I am in full agreement that $200 entry fee is over the top for smaller leagues and urban programs struggling to get by.
My former league was average 200 kids and we fielded 7 Tournament Teams.
Many power house leagues do not field that many as they cap their programs at 12 years old.
We have not have a District champion in my 15 years of involvement but try to tell the kids that.

That being said, with most leagues the sky is the limit with personalized uniforms etc...
Its unfortunate the programs that over fund the All Star minority at the expense of the majority.

#18 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 07:45 PM

Brian... offline, I would be curious to know who that was since there are two DAs in NJ that are hosting regionals.



#19 Dave Poe

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 10:21 PM

Mike - I can think of a few... lol!
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#20 B_Hanlon

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 06:57 PM

D4





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