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Playing in two divisions


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#21 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 05:04 PM

I just don't like having requirements cover both divisions for baseball.
Softball is easy because the game and field are the same going up divisions. However, when you're talking about Majors vs Intermediate, you have different field dimensions and different rules.

It's tough because you want to make the kid play games in both divisions, but not make the requirements impossible.
Scheduling (complicated by rain) is always a huge factor so that's why I said maybe they should decrease it to something like 40%-50% in each.

 

Not entirely true... in softball, you have a 40-foot pitching distance for 11-12 LL and a 43-foot pitching distance for 12-14 juniors.

And some of those juniors could spend most of their time playing seniors, which has similar dimensions but tends to be a much different (more advanced) game.



#22 rsnyder6

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 03:48 PM

We've been doing it as a 9-10 team, (until recent years has very few 9s), and 11 only team, and 11-12s (again, mostly 12s).

The really needed 11s could play with the 12s, though that was rare, and the 10-11 team didn't take any of the better 10s.

It was pretty much a 10yo team, and 11 yo team and a 12yo team.
 
With the falling numbers, (and the age change moving through the years), this may change, but we haven't yet.
 
On a related, parents will try anything note, we have a manager asking that an 11yo player (whose parent he wants to coach with) play down with the 9-10 in the Spring (cause he really isn't that talented).

But he wants to be sure that this kid can try out for their 11-12 All Star team.

My for response was if the kid is good enough to try out for the 11-12 All Stars, why would we have him playing down with 9s and 10s.



#23 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 05:22 PM

...
we have a manager asking that an 11yo player (whose parent he wants to coach with) play down with the 9-10 in the Spring (cause he really isn't that talented). But he wants to be sure that this kid can try out for their 11-12 All Star team.


That's an easy one!
To play on the 11-12 Tournament Team the player must have played in Majors during the season.
Dropping the kid down to 9-10 (minors) means the kid will NOT be eligible to play on the 11-12 team and will only be eligible for the 10-11 team.

You need to inform the kid and parent of that BEFORE they agree to have the kid "play down".
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#24 rsnyder6

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 10:38 PM

That's an easy one!
To play on the 11-12 Tournament Team the player must have played in Majors during the season.
Dropping the kid down to 9-10 (minors) means the kid will NOT be eligible to play on the 11-12 team and will only be eligible for the 10-11 team.

You need to inform the kid and parent of that BEFORE they agree to have the kid "play down".

Oh, yes this was an easy reply, but I think it is not finished.
I've already received quotes of rules that are supposed to help the parent's case.

Thing is, it's not going to happen. How well accepted it will be, we will see.

#25 Jeremy

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 01:35 AM

Let him tryout, it's not like he's going to make it (unless not covered under insurance)....if he's been facing 10 year old pitchers all year he has no business facing 12 year old AllStar pitchers.

#26 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 01:45 AM

Again, the 11-12 team can only come from league age 11 and 12 players who played in majors during the season.
Minor players cannot tryout for the 11-12 team.
You cannot tryout for a team you are not eligible to play on.

#27 rsnyder6

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 12:02 PM

Even if he were eligible to try out for a team, and say he wanted to try out for the 10-11, we have the issue with an All-Star caliber player playing down.

He's either a weak player that should play down, or he's an All-Star level player.
It sounds to me like an attempt to stack a Minors team.

#28 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 01:30 PM

The Board sets the age structures of the divisions.
If your BOD says minors is 9-10 and majors is 11-12 then that's what it is.

In my old District in Florida most (maybe all) of the leagues were 9-10 and 11-12.
The only "caveat" was that a couple of the leagues allowed one or two 10 year olds on each major team.
None of them allowed "playing down", in fact none of them Waived any 12s to play in 9-10s, all their 12s played majors.


As for this 11 year old and the "request" to let him play down, don't let the inmates run the asylum !!!
If they are requesting that he play minors but still be eligible for the major (11-12) All Star Team then it sounds like he's at least a decent player.
That being the case I wouldn't let him play down to 9-10s just to be a big fish in a small pond!
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#29 amutz

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Posted 10 December 2015 - 03:22 PM

Evaluation/tryouts and coaches who've seen the 11yo play should make this easy all around.  Either he needs to play down because he's not good enough and wouldn't make Allstars anyway, or he is relatively strong compared to the 9/10s and should play Majors.   That said, unless the skill mismatch is dangerous I'd prefer to see every kid play baseball who wants to play.  

 

We have a lot of age overlap; 9-11 Minors and 10-12 Majors.  Usually there are about 2 10yo per Majors team.  Most 11s are picked for Majors but some are not ready.  Some 11s can't make the bigger time commitment to play Majors and elect minors.   There is zero chance of a minors player even being suggested for the Majors Allstars.

 

You could have a local rule that 11s who play down to 9/10 are not allowed to pitch, if that mitigates parity problems.  That's the rule for 12s in minors.


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#30 Jeremy

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 02:57 AM

Again, the 11-12 team can only come from league age 11 and 12 players who played in majors during the season.
Minor players cannot tryout for the 11-12 team.
You cannot tryout for a team you are not eligible to play on.


I knew you would give me crap for that post.

Lou is right......Always do it by the book.

#31 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 03:17 AM

Jeremy, I wasn't trying to give you crap.
I just wanted people who may not know to be aware that you can't allow kids to tryout for a tournament team they are not eligible to play on.

Players need to be of the correct league age, must have played in the correct division and must have met the participation requirement in order to tryout for that tournament team.



#32 rsnyder6

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 05:07 PM

The Board sets the age structures of the divisions.
If your BOD says minors is 9-10 and majors is 11-12 then that's what it is.

In my old District in Florida most (maybe all) of the leagues were 9-10 and 11-12.
The only "caveat" was that a couple of the leagues allowed one or two 10 year olds on each major team.
None of them allowed "playing down", in fact none of them Waived any 12s to play in 9-10s, all their 12s played majors.


As for this 11 year old and the "request" to let him play down, don't let the inmates run the asylum !!!
If they are requesting that he play minors but still be eligible for the major (11-12) All Star Team then it sounds like he's at least a decent player.
That being the case I wouldn't let him play down to 9-10s just to be a big fish in a small pond!

 

Our BOD has set 9-10 as Minors, and 11-12 as Majors. Once or twice in the past decade, we have had a 10 play in Majors. About the same few times we have had an 11 in Minors, (I think always a first time player with weak skill, i.e. a safety reason.) We have never had a 12 in Minors that I remember.

Unfortunately this inmate is on the board, and every season has an issue with moving people up or down. I know some people feel different, but safety is about the only common reason we see for moving kids up and down, and seldom do we need to do it past the age of eight.

 

The other reasons are things like family issues, such as situations with divorces/single parents where it is the coach bringing the kid to games and practices, and the kid is already going though a lot. A couple times for siblings where the age and skill level is close. As long as it is not a safety concern, (which means the player is close in age, ability, etc.). Again, this is mostly for the younger kids. 

We don't see playing with a friends as a strong reason to move between divisions. We'll try to get same ages on the same teams, but if you try to match friends together, you get a disaster. 



#33 Plesh

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 06:33 PM

Agreed, especially about playing with friends.

These are kids.
2 practices in and they are all friends.
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#34 HaRDBaLL

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 06:06 PM

For those who encourage dual participation in Majors and Intermediates, how do you handle scheduling games?  We only have one player doing both this year, but has an 8 game overlap where both teams are playing at the same time.  It was overlooked and we are tying to fix it now, but the game scheduler is not happy.

 

We agreed to be very flexible with scheduling games around middle school games and Majors games for anyone who is playing on two teams, but now a few board members are trying to say "that's tough, nothing we can do."  I think we'll attract even more players to stay in the league next year once word gets out that they can play on two teams and we will work with them as best we can.



#35 Jeremy

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Posted 30 March 2016 - 07:21 PM

Kids should have a primary team IMO....one that comes first and has say if he can pitch for the other team or not.
We only dual rostered a group of majors once and the 50/70 manager went and pitched all the kids one weekend....that was the end of 50/70 in my league.
I wouldn't rework a schedule for one kid unless it's an easy inhouse fix....but I would put thought into it.
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#36 HaRDBaLL

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 06:15 AM

What about a 13 year old playing an on Intermediate team and a Seniors team? We do not offer a Juniors division. We have a couple 13 year olds interested and the way I read the rule, they are eligible to play in both.
But re-reading the rule at the top of page 33, it could mean only a 12 year old can play on both sized fields, but a 13 year old can't.

We voted several years ago to not allow dual rostering in Intermediates and Seniors division, so I just assumed I had the rule correct.

#37 Mr. Dill

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 02:26 PM

I have a Player who's birthday is 9/14/06, he is a LL 12 year old this year, he will turn 13, 14 days after the August 31 cutoff date. this player played on the 11/12 all star team the past 2 years and will play on the High School Modified baseball team. Can he play on the Senior League this year, as a 12 year old this year? And then play on the Junior team as an all star this year? 



#38 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 12:20 AM

He's league age 12, he cannot play in Seniors, Seniors is 13-16.
He can "dual" participate in majors, intermediate (50-70), and juniors (2 of the 3).
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#39 Mr. Dill

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Posted 09 February 2019 - 04:33 PM

Can the player who is 12, play Juniors this year and play all stars as a junior?
Can he Play Juniors and Majors and pick what all stars to play on?

#40 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 10 February 2019 - 02:06 PM

Yes, providing he meets the participation requirement for the applicable division.



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