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Must Draft 12 Year Olds

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#1 RB56

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 02:41 AM

Rumor has it our local league will not draft some 12 year olds into the Majors Division this coming season.  These are kids that desire to play in Majors and will attend tryouts. 

Local website states, “We will be using independent evaluators at Majors tryouts, and those players who do not meet established minimum standards for participating in Majors will not be drafted.” 

This appears to run contrary to Section V – Selection of Players in the rule book, but has supposedly been endorsed by the DA.

 

Have other leagues taken such an approach in recent years? 

What happens when the parent of a 12 year old “cut” from the Majors starts complaining?

Are there ramifications to the league over such a local rule – doubt a Waiver has been sought much less granted.



#2 Plesh

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 02:57 AM

What do you mean this season? The regular season is over and All-Stars are finishing up.

 

Also, what do you mean by cut (not drafted) into Majors?

What is the alternate division?

Are we talking about the regular season or All-Stars?

You can't just tell someone they can't play in the league.

 

Please clarify.



#3 RB56

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 03:03 AM

Was referring to the 2016 Spring Season.  

Those 12 year olds who attend tryouts and are not drafted to a Majors Division team would be assigned to a Minor Division team.  

Tryouts for the 2016 Majors Division are being held this month, which is a whole different topic of discussion.



#4 Jamief

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 03:07 AM

Not without a Waiver.

Everything I heard at the Regional training said that the only way a 12 can play minors is with a Waiver and a parent that agrees.

They basically said if a parent doesnt agree then the kid plays majors.



#5 Plesh

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 11:51 AM

I don't have the rulebook on me, but I'm pretty sure there is an exact sentence that states something like '12 year olds are not permitted to play in the Minors Division.' Someone else can help me out with that, but my guess is that you would need a Waiver and for all parties to agree.

 

What ages do you guys use for Minors?

What about Majors?



#6 Dave Poe

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 11:58 AM

Jaime is correct. ALL 12 year olds must be drafted into the majors. The lone, single exception is if a parent requests to have his/her 12 year old placed into the minors. If WP were to find out that a league was leaving 12 year olds behind for any other reason, I suspect they will demand the left behinds be placed on the major teams or the league will risk their charter being revoked. It's that serious.

As for tryouts now - I've heard of this before. The theory is, right or wrong, that it is better to tryout players now after they've just been playing baseball for several months than to try them out in the spring when many haven't picked up a ball or bat all winter.

#7 Jeremy

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 11:59 AM

Was referring to the 2016 Spring Season.  Those 12 year olds who attend tryouts and are not drafted to a Majors Division team would be assigned to a Minor Division team.  Tryouts for the 2016 Majors Division are being held this month, which is a different topic of discussion.



Need a Waiver.

Wouldn't you need 2016 insurance to hold 2016 tryouts?



#8 Dave Poe

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 12:02 PM

I don't think so Jaime. The insurance is good all year to conduct baseball business.

#9 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 01:23 PM

There are a few pieces to this...

 

Jamie, my first thought would be along those lines, but I think Dave it correct that you are insured and it doesn't matter for 2015 or 2016 EXCEPT that an individual child trying out for the first time MIGHT NOT be insured in the same way. That child would not be found on any 2015 roster or registration form... Would be a good question for The Hill.

 

I think the policy is bad. You don't even have a 2016 BOD in place, but someone made a decision about 2016 rosters that impacts the 2016 BOD, specifically the President and Player Agent. If you want to put that into practice, use mid-to-late fall. Maybe.

 

All 12s have to be in the majors unless you have a Waiver / Regulation V (a) approval. 

 

Sounds like someone needs to talk to a Regional Staffer before this league really screws itself up!!! 



#10 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 01:28 PM

Two situations here:
1) if the 12 year old is a returning major player (played majors as an 11 year old) he/she must play in majors
2) if he/she is a new 12 year the only way he/she can play in minors is with a Waiver.
Here is an excerpt from the Waiver form:
"All candidates who are league age twelve (12) must be drafted to a Little League Major Division team, or to a Junior League team. Exceptions can only be made with written approval from the District Administrator, and only if approved at the local league level by the Board of Directors and the parent of the candidate."
In addition, there is a "signature" of the parent/guardian on the form.

Here is a Link to the Waiver Form:
http://www.littlelea...yroldwaiver.pdf

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One more thing, are the try-outs going to be after your new BOD is elected?
If so, it will be up to your new BOD to decide how your 2016 try-outs/drafts will be done.

#11 Jamief

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 01:31 PM

All it would take is a few families of these LA12s to get word to the Region.

The parents didn't give permission.

You will end up re-drafting the entire league.



#12 amutz

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 03:31 PM

Lots of interesting questions with tryouts being held 7 months before the Spring season... but keeping to the 12yo question: our league guided most 12s who really needed to play minors (for safety reasons) into minors by having productive 1:1 conversations with parents after tryouts.   There were only a handful of these.    The weakest players in Majors were probably not 12s, but younger kids being drafted too soon. 



#13 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 04:11 PM

“We will be using independent evaluators at Majors tryouts, and those players who do not meet established minimum standards for participating in Majors will not be drafted.” This appears to run contrary to Section V – Selection of Players in the rule book,..

Actually, it is NOT contrary to the Operating Manual, except for the 12 year olds!
The Operating Manual recommends players be rated 1-5 in 5 categories and that only players who score 15 or higher should be eligible for majors.
In other words, the better players play in majors and the lesser skilled players play in minors.

This prevents a manager telling a kid to "tank" tryouts so he can draft the player in a later round (if the kid tanks tryouts and doesn't score high enough he will end up in minors!).
This also prevents a manager (in a league that retains players) from drafting a low scoring 10 year old "for the future" - if the kid didn't score 15 or higher he's not getting drafted into majors.

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As stated above, all 12 year olds must play in majors (or Intermediate or Juniors) and can only play in minors with an approved Waiver.

Such Waivers should, in my opinion, only be for true "safety reasons" and, as such, the number of such Waivers should be very low in any given year.



#14 Plesh

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 04:28 PM

But what about their ages Lou?

First off, are you ranking all 8-11 year olds on the same scale? A good 8 and a bad 11 could be on the same team?
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#15 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 04:59 PM

Majors is league age 9-12 (although many leagues limit it to 10-12 or 11-12).
Point is, no matter what the ages, the better players should be in majors and the lesser skilled be in minors.
The ability rank is based on ability, not age. If you can field, hit, run, ... well then you score well no matter the age.

All I was saying is that's what the Operating Manual "recommends", like many things in LL, it is not mandated and how you do it is up to you.

If your league doesn't want league age 9 (actual age 8) players playing with league age 12 players, no problem, don't allow it, limit majors to 10-12 or even 11-12.

#16 Plesh

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 05:13 PM

I like that format much better.

Our league does 9/10 as Minors and 11/12 as Majors. I would love to see the good 10s and even 9s play Majors and the poor 11s play Minors. I would also like to push the good 8s up to Minors.

We had some really talented All-Star teams this year, but the terrible quality of play during the regular season hurt them come summertime.

The biggest problem is convincing kids (more so their parent) that they may not be playing with all of their friends.

#17 B_Hanlon

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 05:14 PM

I like the concept of a post season, on field evaluation, I would try not to associate it with try-outs or next years draft. Just additional information that can come in handy next spring when you are trying to cram a snowy February tryout into a basketball court.

 

I really back up what Mike says about this being your 2015 season so absolutely nothing should have a bearing on 2016 until after elections. Why waste the energy?

 

As for the 12's as a DA I would have serious issues with a league making decisions today about a kids ability  8 months from now. 



#18 amutz

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 05:34 PM

Plesh - personally I'm a big fan of 9-11 minors and 10-12 majors age ranges.  

 

After coaching through several Majors season - I have yet to see a 9yo who needed to play Majors.   They would have been with more of their friends and gotten better playing time in Minors.  On the flip side we had quite a few 10yo who belonged on the field with the 11s and 12s, developed quickly, and had great seasons.    



#19 Plesh

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 05:46 PM

amutz

 

I think that's what I'm going to start pushing at our next board meeting.

 

This year we had a bunch of really talented 10 year olds, but they got worse playing Minors. The competition was terrible and they rarely saw decent pitching. When All-Stars rolled around they just couldn't play high quality baseball. It was rough to watch.

 

There were also plenty of 11s that had no business playing Majors and striking out 3 times per game.

 

What about moving the top few 8 year olds up to Minors? Minors would then be 8-11. Any thoughts on that?



#20 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 07:59 PM

Little League says minors is 7-11 (with 12 allowed to "play down" with a Waiver and 5s and 6s eligible to "play up" to Coach/Machine Pitch if they have played a year in Tee-Ball).
Little League says majors is 9-12 (but a local league can limit it to 10-12 or 11-12).

So, your league can pretty much do what they want.
I know of several leagues that are split something like this:
7-8 Minors Machine/Coach Pitch (some 6s that played Tee-Ball as 5 allowed to move up, no 5s allowed to move up).
9-11 Minors Kid Pitch (8s allowed to tryout and if they score high enough one or two per team can "play up", 12 allowed to "play down" with approved Waiver)
11-12 Majors (one or two 10s per team allowed to "play up" if they score high enough in tryouts, 12s can "play down" to minors with an approved Waiver).

I also know of a few leagues that basically use 2 year age brackets (similar to PONY) with NO exceptions.
5-6 Tee-Ball (don't allow 4 year olds)
7-8 Minors Machine/Coach Pitch
9-10 Minors Kid Pitch
11-12 Majors

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As I said, LL basically gives each league a lot of latitude in how they want to set up their divisions, especially minors.
Whatever works for you - Go For It !



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