Jump to content


Dual Charter League Allowing Players to Switch Charters for All Stars


23 replies to this topic

#1 Guest_JC_*

Guest_JC_*
  • Guests

Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:08 PM

This is regarding player eligibility. Our league has always been told that if a league has 2 charters (AL & NL), players cannot cross over once they've been drafted in said charter for their majors tenure. We are to treat each charter as if they were separate leagues. We are currently in district tourney & the league in question has players on both AL & NL current rosters that played on the opposite side of all stars last year. Is this legal? Said league has publicly stated that they put all players back in the draft using "common pool draft method." According to Ops Manual, players must stay in drafted league...unless traded or released. Can X player be traded between AL & NL or only traded within drafted charter?

Please advise.

#2 Lou Barbieri

Lou Barbieri

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 3,090 posts
  • LocationThe Villages, Florida

Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:58 PM

The "Common Pool Draft Method Request Form" is available on the LL Website.
It's a TWO Part Form and below are some excerpts from the Form:

PART ONE
Trades: There shall be no trades between teams in separate charters.

PART TWO
Division Alignment: The teams from the previous season must remain in the same League this season. There shall be no transfer of teams or players from one charter to another.

#3 richives

richives

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,128 posts
  • LocationOwego, NY

Posted 10 July 2015 - 03:11 PM

The "Common Pool Draft Method Request Form" is available on the LL Website.
It's a TWO Part Form and below are some excerpts from the Form:

PART ONE
Trades: There shall be no trades between teams in separate charters.

PART TWO
Division Alignment: The teams from the previous season must remain in the same League this season. There shall be no transfer of teams or players from one charter to another.

 

Even if they do a legally performed complete "common pool" re-draft every year?  They aren't transferring players in that case are they?



#4 Lou Barbieri

Lou Barbieri

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 3,090 posts
  • LocationThe Villages, Florida

Posted 10 July 2015 - 03:25 PM

The way the Common Pool Draft is currently designed (as described on the form) teams/players stay in the same division (American/National) from year to year.
That's what the form says.
So, if a player is drafted onto an American League team as a 10 year old that player is playing in the American League when he/she is 11 and 12.

If you want to do a "Total Re-Draft" where players could end up in the other division from where they played the previous year you would need a Waiver from Williamsport (been there/done that, got the Waiver approved to do it).

In the case described, maybe the league has a Waiver to do what they did.
That said, if it were me, I'd certainly ask about it!

#5 Dave Poe

Dave Poe

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 489 posts

Posted 10 July 2015 - 03:44 PM

Me too. Your President should call the DA ASAP and inquire as to a waiver. If he/she doesn't get an answer, then you proceed to the regional office.

#6 richives

richives

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,128 posts
  • LocationOwego, NY

Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:03 PM

The way the Common Pool Draft is currently designed (as described on the form) teams/players stay in the same division (American/National) from year to year.
That's what the form says.
So, if a player is drafted onto an American League team as a 10 year old that player is playing in the American League when he/she is 11 and 12.

If you want to do a "Total Re-Draft" where players could end up in the other division from where they played the previous year you would need a Waiver from Williamsport (been there/done that, got the Waiver approved to do it).

In the case described, maybe the league has a Waiver to do what they did.
That said, if it were me, I'd certainly ask about it!

 

So if you choose common pool you are forced to use the property player system and just use the common pool to fill the roster with the new players.



#7 Mr. Dill

Mr. Dill

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 91 posts

Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:26 PM

If you re-draft, then thoses players that played in AL this year, can only be on an AL tournament team this year, and if played on NL team this year then that player can only play in the NL tournament team this year. Some leagues use A-K in American and L-Z National.



#8 richives

richives

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,128 posts
  • LocationOwego, NY

Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:37 PM

If you re-draft, then thoses players that played in AL this year, can only be on an AL tournament team this year, and if played on NL team this year then that player can only play in the NL tournament team this year. Some leagues use A-K in American and L-Z National.

 

Problem is, the form says you can't move from charter to charter from one year to the next. No exceptions listed.



#9 Mike_Hirschman

Mike_Hirschman

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 1,325 posts
  • LocationWinston-Salem, NC

Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:40 PM

You can still use the re-draft process each year in an American / National system... but you ultimately have two pools - a restricted and unrestricted. Returning players are restricted and new players are unrestricted.

 

Short of Charter Committee waiver, there shouldn't be random flip-flopping. If the league went through a sudden enrollment drop that created imbalance between the two divisions, I can see the committee allowing them to re-align completely or shift a select number of kids from one side to the other. But I doubt they would get carte blanche to do so. 



#10 richives

richives

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,128 posts
  • LocationOwego, NY

Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:44 PM

You can still use the re-draft process each year in an American / National system... but you ultimately have two pools - a restricted and unrestricted. Returning players are restricted and new players are unrestricted.

 

Short of Charter Committee waiver, there shouldn't be random flip-flopping. If the league went through a sudden enrollment drop that created imbalance between the two divisions, I can see the committee allowing them to re-align completely or shift a select number of kids from one side to the other. But I doubt they would get carte blanche to do so. 

 

But what's the point of restricting the players? What purpose is served, or nefarious plot avoided?

 

And why does my spell checker think carte blanche is not spelled incorrectly.



#11 Mike_Hirschman

Mike_Hirschman

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 1,325 posts
  • LocationWinston-Salem, NC

Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:49 PM

LOL... I googled it first, Rich, so hopefully it is right. 

 

If you didn't have a definition of who goes to which division, realizing that four kids in the American division are studs, you could shift them over to National with three other studs and create a super-team rather than two "decent" teams. 

 

Because no one would ever do that in the name of glory... 



#12 Plesh

Plesh

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,012 posts
  • LocationNorthern New Jersey

Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:49 PM

But what's the point of restricting the players? What purpose is served, or nefarious plot avoided?

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but players are restricted so a league can't stack a single team if they have 2 charters. They don't want free player movement between American/ National from year to year.



#13 Plesh

Plesh

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,012 posts
  • LocationNorthern New Jersey

Posted 10 July 2015 - 04:53 PM

If you didn't have a definition of who goes to which division, realizing that four kids in the American division are studs, you could shift them over to National with three other studs and create a super-team rather than two "decent" teams. 

 

Because no one would ever do that in the name of glory... 

 

We had a league up here in Northern NJ do that for a very long time until they finally came down with the hammer. It was one of those "everyone knows they do it, but nothing ever gets done about it" leagues- until something actually happened. Both teams (East/ West) are still very good, but not quite the yearly state contenders like they were.



#14 Dave Poe

Dave Poe

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 489 posts

Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:22 PM

But what's the point of restricting the players? What purpose is served, or nefarious plot avoided?

And why does my spell checker think carte blanche is not spelled incorrectly.


We had a split league years ago (they wre only LL for 3 seasons). They had to enter two teams at all levels. As it turned out, for the 12-11 division, they put the 12s on the Maroon and the 11s on the Gray. That's how the split them. 10s on the Maroon and 09s on the Gray.

#15 Lou Barbieri

Lou Barbieri

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 3,090 posts
  • LocationThe Villages, Florida

Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:25 PM

So, this year you have 6 American and 6 National teams.
Next year the Returning American players stay in the American League and the Returning National League players stay in the National League.

The leagues can choose to use Plan A (returners stay on same team) or Plan B where returners could end up on different teams in that league (American or National) but they cannot be drafted by a team in the other League.

All the new players can be drafted by a team in either league, they are really the "Common Pool".
The draft picks alternate from league to league (American, National, American, National, American,...).

#16 richives

richives

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,128 posts
  • LocationOwego, NY

Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:27 PM

LOL... I googled it first, Rich, so hopefully it is right. 

 

If you didn't have a definition of who goes to which division, realizing that four kids in the American division are studs, you could shift them over to National with three other studs and create a super-team rather than two "decent" teams. 

 

Because no one would ever do that in the name of glory... 

 

Not at all-star time. The definition happens at the season-starting draft. No switching after that. You'd need a LARGE conspiracy to get the coaches and parents from League A to let the teams in League B draft all the good players



#17 richives

richives

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,128 posts
  • LocationOwego, NY

Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:28 PM

So, this year you have 6 American and 6 National teams.
Next year the Returning American players stay in the American League and the Returning National League players stay in the National League.

The leagues can choose to use Plan A (returners stay on same team) or Plan B where returners could end up on different teams in that league (American or National) but they cannot be chosen by a team in the other League.

All the new players can end up in either league, they are really the "Common Pool" and the picks alternate from league to league (American, National, American, National, American,...).

 

 

You still aren't answering WHY?  What's the point?



#18 Plesh

Plesh

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,012 posts
  • LocationNorthern New Jersey

Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:32 PM

You still aren't answering WHY?  What's the point?

 

Like we said above, so you can't stack one team (charter).



#19 Lou Barbieri

Lou Barbieri

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • 3,090 posts
  • LocationThe Villages, Florida

Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:36 PM

I'm answering on how it is supposed to be done.
It seems to me some others still think it can be done in another manner.
It can't, without a Waiver.

By the way, if you don't think League A and League B would "conspire" to put all the best players in the same league (American or National) so they end up with a stacked Tournament Team I think you're kidding yourself!
Just look at the posts here, why/how do these things happen?

#20 richives

richives

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,128 posts
  • LocationOwego, NY

Posted 10 July 2015 - 05:38 PM

Like we said above, so you can't stack one team (charter).

 

How would you do that? You re-draft everyone every year. You really think League A will pass up the good players so League B gets them all? You want the wrath of several team's worth of coaches and parents on your ass?  Go ahead - take Joey - I don't care if my kid gets stuck in the bad league - he's a klutz anyhow.   Right!





Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users