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JR West Aftermath, Where Does Little League Go From Here?

Jackie Robinson Little League Little League Residency Little League Cheating

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#1 B_Hanlon

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 02:53 PM

We can pretty much be assured that any day now a meeting will be held on "The Hill" and the opening statement will be something like this:

 

"OK team, how do we prevent this from happening again"?

 

What would your ideas be if you were part of "The Team" ? 



#2 Dave Poe

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 03:19 PM

I don't see any drastic changes otber than to reiterate rules already on the books. Perhaps a district boundary maps will have to be submitted every year.

#3 Adam T

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 03:56 PM

http://www.findmyleague.com/

 

Require every league to distribute to every league board member an Operating Manual and "A Year in the Life of Hometown Little League" publication. And have a better avenue for local volunteers to reach out to a proactive regional staff.


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#4 richives

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 03:57 PM

Same thing they did after the Philippine and Harlem issues. They don't have the resources to verify all the maps, birth certificates,  and residency paperwork.



#5 stan.staziak

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 04:48 PM

Sharing the maps with the public would seem to be a logical thing to do

 

This stuff of inputting my address and then saying you will play in XYZ league is fine but they really should show the entire boundary on the website. Hence you know where you belong and if your buddy who lives across town is in another district yet you see him in your league; you might want to say, how did you do that?



#6 Jim

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 04:57 PM

I think being a rural league is easier for us in regards to this.  Our boundaries are our entire county based on population.  I'm sure for cities with multiple leagues this could be a nightmare.

 

At the end of the day all you can do is educate your league administrators, coaches and families.  If parents want to cheat then they'll find a way to do it.  The honor system is involved in a lot of this but as seen many times before people want to circumvent the system and play by their own rules.

 

From an IT stand point I like the fact of plugging in your address and it shows you where you have to play. 



#7 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 04:59 PM

Many Leagues post their boundary map on their websites.
A copy of the boundary map is supposed to be posted at Registrations so that the parent/guadian residence or the location of the player's school can be v e verified to be within league boundaries.
If the player does not meet residence requirements then send him her to the appropriate league.
Been there, done that.

#8 richives

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 05:22 PM

The "attends school in the boundary" thing really messes this up.

 

Places that have open enrollment can essentially recruit openly and legally.

 

Where I live you can go to a public school out of your local district if you pay tuition (or if you are a faculty member's child).

 

You can go to a private or religious school in the area and be legal now.

 

Bad move LL.  It'll haunt you at some point.



#9 amutz

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 05:23 PM

Moving forward some suggestions:

- Build and provide an official LLI map of league boundaries which anyone can access/search

- Before teams begin the regional championship, each team's documents are re-reviewed and questions asked.  Same at section, division, and region.  Perhaps ask PLAYERS where they live and go to school?  Try to get past a good-looking set of paper prior to the tournament start.



#10 Dave Poe

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 08:48 PM

Rich, I'm in favor of the school option. I think it was a good idea. I can't imagine some parent sending a kid to a school just for LL.

The one glaring problem with residency only is that many kids get stuck in a small or poorly manged local league. Some of these kids bail on LL because of it simply because there are now other options available. I've even talked to many parents who stated they would like to keep their child in LL but the local league only has 1 major team or the league is dysfunctional.

The school option gives some of these people a choice.

#11 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 09:15 PM

So as to not betray any confidence from conversations that I have had, let's just say I understand that there are wheels in motion. 



#12 Dave Poe

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Posted 12 February 2015 - 11:56 PM

I'm guessing mandatory submission of boundary maps by each league, each district, or both.

#13 stan.staziak

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 12:49 AM

transparency ALWAYS goes a long way towards getting the publics trust

 

without that, there is always reason to doubt



#14 B_Hanlon

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 01:21 AM

The conversation has to go deeper than just boundary maps, Little League can not afford to strip another title regardless of the reason. The stakes are so big that the manipulators and the cheaters keep looking for, and finding ways to beat the system. Aside from this high profile situation with JRWLL the Taney Team had some real gray areas and there were at least 2 or 3 teams axed for blatant violation of the "Travel Team" clause.  

 

The Little League structure as it exists today have the District Administrators as the Gatekeepers. This is the first line of defense and while the vast majority of them have the utmost integrity, there are some pretty shady ones out there as we just witnessed with Chicago D4.    



#15 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:32 AM

I would like to see a formalized structure for the state coordinators, Brian. Something that says they can't serve as a DA, as well, and adding a layer of governance between regional centers and DAs. 

 

Right now, most of those states that have them, they are powerless figureheads and there is no definition of what they do or should do. And most are DAs already. 



#16 richives

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 06:28 AM

I'm guessing mandatory submission of boundary maps by each league, each district, or both.

 

But JRW DID have a boundary map. It just wasn't kosher. And if we don't trust the DA who is going to check over the 5,000 or so maps submitted each year. And will those people know the areas well enough to know if it's up to snuff?

 

At some point you have to trust someone.



#17 stan.staziak

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 12:20 PM

Isn't that why we have checks and balances?

 

The league presidents if they publish their boundaries would know the moment someone infringes upon their territory

 

However with the secrecy of boundaries, it takes away basic checks and balances that would prevent this sort of thing. 

 

If I infringe upon your territory with my published map, you should know it (or become aware through someone else saying, why am I know in a new league) thru a quick review

 

however for some reason, everyone wants to keep this as top secret data. 

 

to me that is one of the fundamental problems here



#18 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 02:01 PM

Stan.... a good DA would catch it. That's Rich's point. The system has always been only as good as the local leadership. Phillipines was about the DA. NYC was, in some form, about the DA although blame wasn't truly placed there. Taiwan way-back-when was even about local leadership. 

 

Meanwhile, you have a DA in California getting hung in the town square for doing the right thing and trying to clean up a district that has had problems in the past. 

 

And the maps aren't "private" per say.... and they won't be if this plays out like I think it will. 



#19 B_Hanlon

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 03:53 PM

I like several of your ideas Mike, that State Coordinator addition could be a big plus. The DA role is a vital role in Little League yet it is one of the most difficult roles to fill as their kids have left the program. There is nothing that keeps them involved other than their passion to the organization so it is extremely difficult to demand more from them and it's pretty tough to fire a volunteer elected by the local leagues who care more about just filling the position than the quality of the individual.

 

I also agree that the maps are not secret documents, however, they are an absolute mess and horribly inconsistent.



#20 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 13 February 2015 - 04:36 PM

Brian.... it would solve issues on a few fronts. But the biggest piece in all of this is that we have gone through a significant, but subtle, period of deregulation. We don't send all of these forms to The Hill like we used to. It is all dependent on the DA. Think about it... and I may miss on one or two...

 

Regulation II(d) and IV(h) - DAs

Tournament Affidavit - DAs (remember when we used to send the check for tournament fees with the affidavit?)

Special Games - DAs and region (no HQ approval anymore)

 

 

With other forms... rosters are only to mine for data. Combined play and interleague are only looked at if someone asks for a tournament combination. 

 

We have all heard the DAs complain about the amount of paper they have been asked to hold on to over the last few years. The fact is that we deregulated a good portion of the paperwork to put it at the local level. And when we did, I remember having these convos about what happens if you have a badly organized DA or even a rogue DA? Well, now we have had one. 

 

The state coordinator would allow that additional check before going to the regional office. It is either that or hire more regional staff so that each one is assigned to 2/3 states. But personally, I think a state coordinators position could be more effective as they could be "on the ground". 





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