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Waiver for One or Two Players


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#1 rsnyder6

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 03:50 AM

Little League rejected, (repeatedly) our requests for combined teams in the Tournament for all three charters. They have told us that they will allow two of the charters to form a combined team. (Still working on that, as the web site does not allow it since all three charters combined in the regular season.)

We are being told by coaches that they don't believe they will be able to produce a team in the single charter. (We were not able to enter a team in the 9-10-11 age group last year.) However, there are a couple of kids in this charter who want to play, and the other charters would take them. Otherwise, they would. not have a chance to play.

Is it even possible, to get a waiver that would allow this? We have gone to the DA, but since none of this definite, we don't want to go farther right now. But we are trying to get an idea if this is even possible.

TIA

#2 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 08:15 PM

I'd submit the Waiver Request, it can't hurt.
I'd describe the situation in detail and ask for approval so that these players do not get denied the opportunity to play in The Tournament.
Heck, I'd even include letters from the players' parents!

Good Luck
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#3 ofina

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Posted 17 May 2019 - 06:26 PM

We're not at that stage yet, or at least, we are just starting collecting names now.

But last year we tried to combine with a neighbouring league and were denied.  Repeatedly.  Our DA went back to them many times and they didn't relent.  They cited population as the reason.

 

One of this season's webinars has in it a potential explanation for this baffling decision.  I don't recall what the explanation was, nor which webinar it was, but I intend to find it again.



#4 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 18 May 2019 - 02:25 AM

A number of years ago at LL Congress (I forget which one) LL "did away with" the population requirement.
BUT, they keep denying things based on Population, go figure! B)

In my opinion (which accounts for exactly zero in LL), it should be based on the numbers of teams/players. If a league with 10 Major teams can field a team than a combination where the total number of teams is 10 or less should be able to combine and field a team. Seems like common sense to me but, then again, this is LL and common sense is not their strong suit. B)

Heck, I'd be happy if they dropped the number to combine to eight, I've seen combinations of three teams (one league with two and one with one) rejected due to Population. Pure lunacy.

#5 rsnyder6

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Posted 27 May 2019 - 07:47 PM

Yea, we hear population uses also. Even though there are two other leagues, (not LL) in one of the charters. 

We re still trying to work out something for this summer. We were approved for all three leagues to play combined for the Spring. 7 teams, just under 90 kids in majors.

We applied to play combined in the tournament but were rejected on all three charters, (not really surprising), but were told that we would be approved for just the two smaller charters. The reasoning was the one charter was big enough by itself.

Well, we went to apply online, and you can either apply what we did in the Spring, all three, or none combined.  We can technically apply the larger charter with the two smaller charters, but it was made clear that would be rejected.

The two smaller charters, since they were "invited" by the larger one, can apply to combine.  No problem we think, we can do it manually. 

Well from Bristol to our DA, we are told we should have filled out multiple combinations, charter A with B & C, charter A with B, charter A with C charter B with C, all possible combinations. And nothing could be done now.  (This is not what we were told before the season.)

Makes no sense to me. 

We have grown our league by over a third in the past few years, but we are looking at no Tournament teams this year. Really going to hurt our credibility. The idea of Williamsport does attract players, even if we all know they aren't going to gert there. Our younger divisions are thriving, but Majors is going to be hurt even more.



#6 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 12:15 AM

Stupidity such as this, as well as competition from Travel Ball and even other sports is why participation in the Southeastern Region is down 43% since 2007!
What is LL doing to combat the issue, I have no idea! B)

Know of a league that started with 8 Major teams that the voluntarily split into two divisions with four teams in each. Stayed that way for about four or five years and then their numbers started to drop. Got down to three teams in one division and two in the other. Requested to Combine for All Stars and were rejected. The following year they were down to two and two and again their request to Combine for All Stars was denied. Williamsport was told that they would probably leave if they couldn't combine, seems they didn't care. That was it, the next year they switched to Dixie League.
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#7 rsnyder6

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 03:32 AM

I like your idea that since a League with 10 teams can field one team, why not multiple leagues that total ten teams.

And again as you said, if they wanted to make it 8 teams (or even 7) could combine, that's fine. For us, one charter sometimes only has ten 12-year-olds. Nice we can pull up as young as 10 to fill the open spots, but the parents of 10-year-olds don't want them in the tournament playing 12s.

We have appealed once again directly to the region, and hope to get some relief. We are not asking for all three charterers to be combined, just the two smaller ones that we could have combined if one of them had filed as "host." It would seem to meet both the spirit and the letter of the rules.



#8 rsnyder6

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 03:43 AM

Oh, one other point. Our charters are by school district boundary. One league that we boarder on has all their schools except the high school in one charter, so they register most of their kids in one charter based on the schools. Certainly an advantage.  

(Well used to register them that way. They were allowed to combine their charters, even though they are larger than us.)

I get the school district thing, but it is an advantage for some leagues, especially in areas where you have a choice of schools.

Grumble, grumble.  :)



#9 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 28 May 2019 - 01:57 PM

Again, LL continues to have their head in the sand on things like this.
They think everyone tries to Combine to stack a Tournament Team so they say No.
They fail to realize some leagues need to Combine just to be able to field teams.
If LL truly wanted more kids to get to play in The Tournament they'd be more liberal with Combined Team approvals.
It's not 1960, there are other games in town!

===========
Regional Roundtables next year. Someone should submit a proposal on "pre-approved" Combinations for Tournament Play. Something like two or even three leagues may Combine if their total number of teams is eight or less. More than eight would require approval from Williamsport.

Another proposal needs to be on re-combing a Division. Split at 10 but be allowed to recombine at 8 or less. Disapproving re-combining with only five or six total teams (let alone three or four) is idiotic in my opinion.
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#10 rsnyder6

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 05:06 PM

Regional Roundtables next year. Someone should submit a proposal on "pre-approved" Combinations for Tournament Play. Something like two or even three leagues may Combine if their total number of teams is eight or less. More than eight would require approval from Williamsport.

Another proposal needs to be on re-combing a Division. Split at 10 but be allowed to recombine at 8 or less. Disapproving re-combining with only five or six total teams (let alone three or four) is idiotic in my opinion.

Regional Roundtables are for DAs? We would ask him to submit a proposal?


And yes, on splitting and recombining.  You can allow for flexibility, but some things should be automatic. There seems to be a very wide variability on what they approve or not.

No reason one of our charters which some years has as few as 80 players (PW though Juniors) can't combine. 



#11 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 29 May 2019 - 05:47 PM

Regional Roundtables and the International Congress alternate every two years.
Yes, they are for DAs and ADAs/District Staff Members but only DAs get to vote on the Agenda Items.
DAs can submit "Proposals" for items to be put on the Agenda.

Pretty simple to do actually.
You write down what regulation or rule your request applies to and what you want changed/revised. Then you include a synopsis of the intent/benefit of the change.
Your DA then sends the Proposed change to the Region/Williamsport.

If they get similar proposals from several DAs the item has a better chance to make it on the Agenda.

Since the first Roundtable is in January 2020 I'd submit any proposal you have pretty soon!
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#12 rsnyder6

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Posted 31 May 2019 - 04:09 AM

Thanks for the info.  I will push for something.

And we found out that Bristol was much more accommodating when we went to them directly. Different from what we got from the DA, who wanted to just move on to next year. 

The software still needs to be fixed, no reason which charter or league files as host should affect who can combine, but we got that part worked out at least. 



#13 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:45 PM

June 1st, so what, if anything happened?

#14 rsnyder6

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 03:08 PM

Well, they have allowed our two smaller charters to play together, it was really pretty easy and the person I spoke to at Bristol made it happen quickly. Thanks to her.

Unfortunately the larger charter will not be fielding a team in the tournament. And we received word this morning that the waiver request for one player in that charter to play with the team being entered from the other ones was denied. I feel bad we have no place fir this one kid.

So it look like we will only have one team this year for all ages. ( For a few reasons.)

We have been told again that the better way to combine is to work on joining our charters into 2 or 1, however we have been trying that for several years. But we will continue.

#15 Plesh

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Posted 03 June 2019 - 11:51 PM

And Little League wants to know why numbers are plummeting... 



#16 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 04 June 2019 - 12:56 AM

No one to blame but themselves, which, of course, they won't.



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