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Seniors Fall Ball


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#1 ofina

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 04:24 PM

I have an issue this Fall with Seniors Baseball.

In the past our district has been more flexible with age ranges in the Fall than in the Spring. I asked them for advice regarding one 2019 league age 18 kid to see if there was anything we could do for him. It seems that they are now, with no warning, being more strict on the ages. And they deny that they were ever flexible. My prior Player Agent has the emails from previous years to prove it.

Our fall rep meeting is on Thursday.

Our numbers for Fall are typically very poor and without the 2019 LA 17 kids we can't field a team.

I now have my manager for this team begging me to allow the LA 18 kid because who would ever know? He's starting to get angry with me in fact. I told him what the current issue with the 17 years olds is and seems stupified that I would find somewhere else for the 15-16 year olds to play if we have to turn down the 17 year olds.

I'm unsure how to handle this. The district flat out told me no. But I feel quite sure that when their official Fall rules come out it will again have the flexible wording.

When the issue became apparent I closed registration on that division until we figure it all out and now I'm running out of time.

I'm concerned what the manager will say when/if I tell him that half of the team he has worked to keep can't play.

Do any of you allow 2019 league age 17 kids to play one last season together? I keep getting "It's for the kids" thrown in my face.

Our president says no, our VP says yes, our safety guy doesn't understand what the issue is safety-wise and I'm new.

#2 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 05:02 PM

2018 Fall Ball ages are based on the 2018 age charts not the 2019 charts.

Using the 2018 charts, senior division players that are league age 16 this year (will be league age 17 in 2019) are eligible for Fall Ball this Fall.

In Fall Ball you are permitted to move players up to the division they will play next spring.

#3 ofina

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 08:48 PM

Maybe it's a district thing.
Because most definitely our district does fall based on the next year's age chart.

#4 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 09:00 PM

It's 2018, the 2018 age chart still applies.

That said, in Fall Ball you can "move up players" to the division they will be playing in next spring/summer but you can also allow them to play in the same division they played in this spring/summer.

If you are playing Inter-League you need agreement with the DA/Leagues you are playing so everyone knows what's going on.

#5 ofina

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 01:30 AM

Our District runs Fall Ball with the next year's age chart and I believe it always has.
I'm not District.
I've been trying to get some clarification on it, but I believe they allow flexibility within the divisions, ie playing by 2018 ages instead, except where a kid has aged out of the program based on 2019.

#6 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:28 PM

If I was a 16 year old and was told I couldn't play Fall Ball because I turn 17 next year I'd be on the phone with the Region/Williamsport!
What your DA is doing is against LL Rules/Regulations.

Maybe your DA doesn't know what he/she is doing is wrong.
In essence, he/she is robbing players of their last chance to play in LL.

#7 ofina

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 01:27 AM

We have a lot of kids in this situation.
Can you tell me where it says that?
I can't find it anywhere.

#8 RB56

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 01:30 AM

Our league also uses next year's league age for Fall Ball.

 

Little League's Guide to Operating a Little League® Second Season: Summer and Fall Ball Programs is in-line with what Lou states in Post #4.

  • "Provides players an additional opportunity to transition to the next level of play by providing the opportunity to participate at the league age that they will attain for the next spring season or to remain at their existing level of play to gain additional experience"

Players have the "opportunity" to play at next year's league age, or remain at their existing level of play.  Reads as a player option/decision, versus a league/district mandate.

 

https://ll-productio...-Guide-2013.pdf



#9 rsnyder6

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 04:11 PM

We also set the fall divisions at the following year's age. Some parents/kids are happy their kids are "playing up," though they are playing with the same age, just different rules. :)

Very few don’t play in their next year spring division, usually, kids that near the cut off (young) and/or are playing for the first time.

We do allow the kids that will age out at the end of the year to play their last season, though there are generally very few these days. (Similar to Big League towards the end before it was ended.)

Interested if leagues let next year four-year-olds play in the fall?

#10 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 04:19 PM

We let kids "play up" if they will move up a division next spring but we also allow kids to play in the same division the player played in this spring, including Seniors who age out next year.

We do not allow next year's four year olds play Fall Tee-Ball.

#11 ofina

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 04:36 PM

Our district adopts a "no exceptions" rule.
Which means, everyone must play up at next years ages with no option to play at 2018 ages. They are not allowing the aging-out seniors one last season.

This Fall is actually the first Fall that we have even offered Tee Ball in the Fall.
No 2019 4 year olds have registered and I doubt any will.
But I will discuss with the relevant VP to see what he thinks so we are prepared if it happens.

#12 rsnyder6

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 05:28 PM

"No 2019 4 year olds have registered and I doubt any will. But I will discuss with the relevant VP to see what he thinks so we are prepared if it happens."

We get very few requests for that.

This is mostly not an issue for us, other than having to explain that the kids the same age are still playing together.

Much more of an issue is the one that happens every season, the LL cut off date not being that close to the school cut off date. That brings questions about how come someone's 3-grade kid is playing with 2nd graders or 4th graders. Or a different way, why is that 3rd grader playing in a different division than my 3rd grader.

The biggest reason we have kids moving up in the fall is to have the 12 turning 13 have a chance to play on the big field before the spring season. I think that is the biggest step in LL.


#13 ofina

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:07 PM

"Much more of an issue is the one that happens every season, the LL cut off date not being that close to the school cut off date. That brings questions about how come someone's 3-grade kid is playing with 2nd graders or 4th graders. Or a different way, why is that 3rd grader playing in a different division than my 3rd grader."

Surely that's not an issue anymore now that the cutoff is the end of August.

Our District's Fall Ball guy said he was going to go back to the green and red books to make sure we are following the age rules. I see nothing in my green or red book that even mentions Fall Ball or Second Season. I'm really hoping after he looks back at things, he will discover that he is wrong.

#14 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:38 PM

Fall Ball (Second Season) is not discussed/mentioned in the LL Baseball or Softball Rulebooks.

You can go on the LL Website under Forms & Publications and under Operations you can find the Fall Ball Guide.
Also, in Forms & Publications under ASAP you can find the Hometown Publication (A Year in the Life of Hometown Little League) which has a short description of a Second Season (Fall Ball) program.

Of course, you can always call the Region/Williamsport and ask.
Calling the Region is not a big deal, answering questions is one of their main responsibilities!

#15 rsnyder6

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 02:52 AM

"Much more of an issue is the one that happens every season, the LL cut off date not being that close to the school cut off date. That brings questions about how come someone's 3-grade kid is playing with 2nd graders or 4th graders. Or a different way, why is that 3rd grader playing in a different division than my 3rd grader."

>> Surely that's not an issue anymore now that the cutoff is the end of August.

Still is. The one year when the cutoff was the end of the year made things better for us, (and also made figuring LA real easy like SB is now). I would have liked that being left in place.

And the practice of holding kids back, which has been getting more prevalent, doesn't help either.


#16 ofina

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:48 PM

Is your school cut off December 31?



#17 rsnyder6

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 04:11 AM

Is your school cut off December 31?

Earlier in December.

I know many states it is on or around end of August.
I kind of assumed that that was one reason it was changed to that.

#18 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:29 PM

A major reason it was changed to the end of August was to stop having 13 year olds at the LLWS.

LL was embarrassed when so many 13s were playing on TV in their "12 year old" division.

Moving the date to the end of August assures no one over 12 can play in the 10-12 Tournament.

#19 ofina

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:14 PM

So after our Fall meeting last night, it seems that the ADA for Fall Ball is willing to be more flexible now as long as he doesn't know.
Apparently, the DA is still adamant though. Weird.
About half the leagues were following the ages strictly and half weren't.

I wasn't at the meeting actually, I had my son's Freshman Orientation that I didn't want to miss.

Waiting for the go ahead from our President and then I will open things back up again.

#20 Plesh

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:29 PM

I can't stress enough how important it is for every league to be on the same page for interleague play, especially fall ball because you have kids moving up an age.

Our district is a mess when it comes to that, all 12 teams have different rules.
12 year olds playing against 9 year olds.
Make sure it is explicitly written out before it all starts and that every coach has a copy of the rules.
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