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Combining for Tournament Teams


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#1 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:22 PM

Anyone having problems getting approval for Combined All Star teams?
I've already gotten a few calls and emails about requests being rejected.
All I could suggest was to call the Region/Williamsport and "appeal" the rejection.
Find out the "reason" for the rejection and see if there is anything that can be done to get the issue resolved/combination approved.

#2 Plesh

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:36 AM

Any more details on the rejections? Level, league size, etc.?

We will need to do combined teams for Juniors and Seniors BB and Seniors SB so we'll see what they say.

#3 rsnyder6

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:09 AM

I wish in all these sort of thing, (such as combining leagues) they would do what you suggested earlier, make clear some criteria, such as certain conditions are definite approval, some conditions are definite denial, and some have to be considered. 

These things seem very unequally applied.


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#4 RB56

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 06:21 PM

See there are a few comments/complaints on Little League's Facebook page regarding requests for combined all-star teams being rejected, with population cited as a reason.  How is population factored in for league size, if at all today?  Read somewhere that a population guideline of 20,000 was used in the past.  

 

We have a city population of nearly 150,000, plus a large number more with school boundaries factored in, but our leagues were allowed to shrink from four down to three this season.  We had five leagues not that many years ago.  Our kids feed into five different high schools, each with enrollment above 2,500 students.  Would have preferred we kept the five leagues, with boundaries matching the five high schools, but our Board went a different route and Williamsport agreed.

 

Is there a criteria in place, or each case is reviewed on its own?  Is it a Williamsport decision, or a regional decision, regarding charter size and/or combined all-star team requests?



#5 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 11 June 2018 - 01:16 AM

Williamsport, or as many of us are fond of saying, The Janitor! B)

I too have been told of population being the reason for rejecting some Combined Team Applications.
Little League "did away with" its population requirement years ago but from time to time it still raises its ugly head.
Population shouldn't matter, what should matter is how many leagues/teams are involved in the combination.

#6 rsnyder6

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Posted 12 June 2018 - 03:58 PM

We keep working on combining charters, but we get told it isn't going to happen because of population. 

Each charter has about 30 to 32 thousand. One charter we usually get 80 to 90 from, and another, 120-140. The third is over 300.

We were right around 500 total for the last four years, but this year increased by about 70, though our Senior division is almost gone since everyone is playing at a Spring tournament a neighboring league runs. Good sign, though at one time we had 1900. 

A charter with fewer than 100 (4-16) is really hard to do much with. (There is a league run by two churches that gets many players in the two smaller charters.)



#7 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 01:42 AM

Not allowing you to combine the two smaller leagues into one Charter is just plain NUTS (in my opinion).

We need a new Janitor. B)
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#8 ofina

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 03:20 PM

Chiming in late, as usual. 

We were denied a combined all star team last year.  We wanted to combine with two neighbouring leagues.  We were denied.  Our DA appealed and appealed over and over.  Still a no go.

Yes, population was cited as the reason.  It's ridiculous and a very antiquated notion that population has anything to do with it.

 

Our city has a population of about 120,000 and two leagues to cover it.  We used to have 4.

 

It made several of our players very unhappy. 

 

I'm hoping that this year will be better.



#9 RB56

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 05:02 PM

For 2019, we received a waiver to combine two of our leagues for All Stars, at both the 9 - 11 year old level & the 10 - 12 year old level.  Head scratcher, to say the least.  We have three leagues total, was five leagues not that long ago, and represent a city with a population in excess of 150,000 (See Post #4 above).  

 

The two leagues that combined each had three Majors Division teams for 11 & 12 year olds.  In addition, one league had five Minors Division teams, while the other had seven Minors Division teams for 11 & 12 year olds.  Together, that is six Majors Division teams and twelve Minor Division teams for 11 & 12 year olds.  As mentioned in other threads, the majority of our 11 & 12 year olds play in a Minors Division (we have a waiver for 12-year olds to pitch in the Minors Divisions).

 

Our third league is not participating in the LLI tournament this year, choosing to play in other baseball tournaments instead.



#10 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 10:22 PM

What "other baseball tournaments" is your third league playing in this year?
Are they "non-LL" Tournaments?
If so, do they have permission from Williamsport to play in them?
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#11 rsnyder6

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Posted 04 July 2019 - 05:10 PM

"As mentioned in other threads, the majority of our 11 & 12 year olds play in a Minors Division"

Remember these leagues. So they allowed two leagues with 18 11-12-year-old teams to combine?

I guess the real question continues to be how they are allowed to have so many 11-12s in Minors, and how they get so many wavers for the 12s.



#12 RB56

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Posted 05 July 2019 - 01:06 PM

What "other baseball tournaments" is your third league playing in this year?
Are they "non-LL" Tournaments?
If so, do they have permission from Williamsport to play in them?

 

These other baseball tournaments are run by various leagues/organizations, typically for "In House All Stars" only.  Often times, tournaments are run by participants in the Chicagoland Sunday Baseball League as fund raisers.  Williamsport is certainly aware of the Chicagoland Sunday Baseball League.

 

We sometimes see leagues that have an "A" and a "B" All Star team at various ages.  With the "A" team being the District Tournament Team, and the "B" team being the Tournament team (participating in non-LLI tournaments).  Copied from a local Little League website:

 

  • At the conclusion of the statements, each manager will vote for 12 "A" All Stars and 12 "B" All Stars.  An A vote will count for 3 points while a B vote will count for 1 point.  For the 10YO - 12YO divisions, in determining the District team, the top 10 vote getters (assuming participation) in each league will automatically "make" the team.  The remaining 2 at large selections will be determined by the League President in collaboration with the All Star Manager to ensure the team is best positioned to compete.  Following this process, the "next" 12 will be named Tourney All Stars.  In the 8YO and 9YO division, the managers will vote for "A" and "B" All Stars, but those teams will be divided into even teams as described above.

 

Not sure how common this practice is, and certainly against LLI published rules, but does give additional kids an opportunity to play tournament-type baseball.



#13 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 06 July 2019 - 12:15 AM

Sure hope no one gets seriously injured playing in a non-LL sanctioned Tournament!

#14 RB56

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 12:49 AM

Sure hope no one gets seriously injured playing in a non-LL sanctioned Tournament!

 

Teams do have separate insurance coverage.  Can even purchase insurance through the Chicagoland Sunday Baseball League, at what appears to be reasonable rates.

 

Where it can get dicey is with baseball field permits.  Have spoken to a couple leagues, and they rely on the local Little League affiliation to gain access to the quality fields.  The Park District or City often own the fields, and a newly formed "independent" baseball team would be at the back of the queue for access (likely end-up on a softball field with 300' fences, a dirt infield and no pitching mound).  To get quality fields, lean on the local Little League to procure permits.

 

Concern is in the event of property damage, the Park District or City will go to the insurance tied with the field permit.  But the Little League insurance would not cover property damage, since it was not a Little League sanctioned game/event.  The separate insurance for the "independent" baseball team would not cover property damage, since the field was not reserved under that insurance policy.



#15 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 11 July 2019 - 02:23 AM

Oh what a tangled web we weave ...

Chances are nothing goes wrong, but if it does, watch out!

#16 rsnyder6

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Posted 19 July 2019 - 07:50 PM

Some folks have trouble understanding these things. 

I remember last year or the year before, a guy that coaches with us spring and fall wanted out insurance info so he could use it to cover a team he had put together in a local tournament. He had a hard time getting why that wasn't going to happen.





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