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2018 changes to substitution Rule 3.03


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#1 amutz

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 07:20 PM

Our local league is working on the latest changes to the rules around substitutions.

Does this mean every player (starter and sub) is effectively 'bonded' to their place in the batting order once they enter the lineup?

https://www.littlele...s/rule-changes/

I believe that this rule aligns regular season and Tournament substitution rules.

Rule 3.03
A player in the starting line-up who has been removed for a substitute may re-enter the game, in the SAME position in the batting order, provided:


( a ) his or her substitute has completed one time at bat and;
( b ) has played defensively for a minimum of six (6) consecutive outs;
( c ) Baseball: pitchers once removed from the mound may not return as pitchers; Intermediate (50/70) Division/Junior/Senior: A pitcher remaining in the game, but moving to a different position, can return as a pitcher any time in the remainder of the game, but only once per game.

NOTE: A player who has met the mandatory play requirements, and is a pitcher at the time she/he is removed, may be removed for a substitute batter and re-enter the game as a pitcher once, provided the pitcher was not physically replaced on the mound.

EXAMPLE: Player A is a starter and not a pitcher, Player B substitutes into the game for player A. Both players have met mandatory play by completing one (1) time at bat and six (6) consecutive defensive outs and both occupy the same spot in the batting order. In the fifth inning player A becomes a pitcher and is scheduled to bat in the sixth inning, but player B bats for player A. Both players have met mandatory play requirements and player A was not physically replaced on the mound as a pitcher, therefore, player A can return to pitch the sixth inning.

Softball: a pitcher remaining in the game, but moving to a different position, can return as a pitcher anytime in the remainder of the game, but only once in the same inning as he/she was removed.

Minor/Major Divisions: NOTE: A pitcher, withdrawn from the game for a substitute offensively or defensively, may not re-enter the game as a pitcher. This applies to continuous batting order. EXCEPTION: A pitcher may re-enter the game as a pitcher, if withdrawn for a pinch-hitter or pinch-runner, and then returned to the game at the beginning of the next half-inning.

Junior/Senior Divisions: A pitcher may be withdrawn from the game, offensively or defensively, and return as pitcher once per inning provided the return does not violate either the substitution, visits per pitcher, or mandatory play rule(s).

(d) A starter and her/his substitute must not be in the line-up at the same time, except as provided in 3.03 Note 3. Once mandatory play is met, a starter and substitute(s) can enter/re-enter for each other as desired, but must re-enter in the SAME position in the batting order.

(e) Defensive substitutions must be made while the team is on defense. Offensive substitutions must be made at the time the offensive player has her/his turn at bat or is on base.

NOTE 1: A substitute may not be removed from the game prior to completion of his/her mandatory play requirements.

NOTE 2: When two or more substitute players of the defensive team enter the game at the same time, the manager shall, immediately before they take their positions as fielders, designate to the Umpire-in-Chief such players’ positions in the team’s batting order and the Umpire-in-Chief shall notify the official scorer. The Umpire-in-Chief shall have authority to designate the substitutes’ places in the batting order, if this information is not immediately provided.

NOTE 3: If during a game either team is unable to place nine (9) players on the field due to illness, injury, ejection, or inability to make a legal substitution, the opposing manager shall select a player previously used in the line-up to re-enter the game, but only if use of all eligible players has exhausted the roster. A player ejected from the game is not eligible for re-entry.

#2 richives

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 08:28 PM

Our local league is working on the latest changes to the rules around substitutions.

Does this mean every player (starter and sub) is effectively 'bonded' to their place in the batting order once they enter the lineup?

A player in the starting line-up who has been removed for a substitute may re-enter the game, in the SAME position in the batting order, provided:


It doesn't seem aligned because as I read it only starters may re-enter.
So as in the past subs may not re-enter in regular season.

#3 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 08:55 PM

Rich, not according to the EXAMPLE!

It has Player A (a Starter) being replaced by Player B (a Sub).
Both meet MPR.
Player A goes back in the game to pitch and when Player A is due to bat Player B (the sub) bats for Player A.
Player A then goes back into the game to pitch.

So, the Sub was taken out of the game and was re-entered!!!

#4 richives

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 09:49 PM

Rich, not according to the EXAMPLE!

It has Player A (a Starter) being replaced by Player B (a Sub).
Both meet MPR.
Player A goes back in the game to pitch and when Player A is due to bat Player B (the sub) bats for Player A.
Player A then goes back into the game to pitch.

So, the Sub was taken out of the game and was re-entered!!!

The Example doesn't match the Rule.
Rule has the greater weight does it not?

The tournament rule says "Any player who has been removed . . ".
The regular season says "A player in the starting lineup . . "

LL did a copy/paste without thinking it through.

I don't like the change anyhow as I stated a while back.

#5 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 10:48 PM

The rule says a Starter may re-enter, it doesn't say a Sub can't!
The EXAMPLE says a Sub can re-enter.
I agree with you, LL messed up the cut/paste, it should have said "Any Player".

The discussion was to make the Regular Season Sub Rule the same as The Tournament Sub Rule because Tournament Managers weren't use to it and were messing it up.

Personally I like having a Sub being able to re-enter.
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#6 amutz

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 10:59 PM

It's not an example.  It's section (d) of the rule.  The formatting is painful.    Here it is without Examples.

 

 

Rule 3.03
A player in the starting line-up who has been removed for a substitute may re-enter the game, in the SAME position in the batting order, provided:


( a ) his or her substitute has completed one time at bat and;
( b ) has played defensively for a minimum of six (6) consecutive outs;
( c ) Baseball: pitchers once removed from the mound may not return as pitchers;

 

Intermediate (50/70) Division/Junior/Senior: A pitcher remaining in the game, but moving to a different position, can return as a pitcher any time in the remainder of the game, but only once per game.

NOTE: A player who has met the mandatory play requirements, and is a pitcher at the time she/he is removed, may be removed for a substitute batter and re-enter the game as a pitcher once, provided the pitcher was not physically replaced on the mound.

Softball: a pitcher remaining in the game, but moving to a different position, can return as a pitcher anytime in the remainder of the game, but only once in the same inning as he/she was removed.

Minor/Major Divisions: NOTE: A pitcher, withdrawn from the game for a substitute offensively or defensively, may not re-enter the game as a pitcher. This applies to continuous batting order. EXCEPTION: A pitcher may re-enter the game as a pitcher, if withdrawn for a pinch-hitter or pinch-runner, and then returned to the game at the beginning of the next half-inning.

Junior/Senior Divisions: A pitcher may be withdrawn from the game, offensively or defensively, and return as pitcher once per inning provided the return does not violate either the substitution, visits per pitcher, or mandatory play rule(s).

(d) A starter and her/his substitute must not be in the line-up at the same time, except as provided in 3.03 Note 3. Once mandatory play is met, a starter and substitute(s) can enter/re-enter for each other as desired, but must re-enter in the SAME position in the batting order.

(e) Defensive substitutions must be made while the team is on defense. Offensive substitutions must be made at the time the offensive player has her/his turn at bat or is on base.

NOTE 1: A substitute may not be removed from the game prior to completion of his/her mandatory play requirements.

NOTE 2: When two or more substitute players of the defensive team enter the game at the same time, the manager shall, immediately before they take their positions as fielders, designate to the Umpire-in-Chief such players’ positions in the team’s batting order and the Umpire-in-Chief shall notify the official scorer. The Umpire-in-Chief shall have authority to designate the substitutes’ places in the batting order, if this information is not immediately provided.

NOTE 3: If during a game either team is unable to place nine (9) players on the field due to illness, injury, ejection, or inability to make a legal substitution, the opposing manager shall select a player previously used in the line-up to re-enter the game, but only if use of all eligible players has exhausted the roster. A player ejected from the game is not eligible for re-entry. 



#7 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 30 April 2018 - 11:26 PM

Works for me!

Still would have been better if it started with "any player" like the Tournament Rule.
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#8 richives

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 02:49 PM

It's not an example. It's section (d) of the rule. The formatting is painful. Here it is without Examples.


Rule 3.03
A player in the starting line-up who has been removed for a substitute may re-enter the game, in the SAME position in the batting order, provided:


( a ) his or her substitute has completed one time at bat and;
( b ) has played defensively for a minimum of six (6) consecutive outs;
( c ) Baseball: pitchers once removed from the mound may not return as pitchers;

Intermediate (50/70) Division/Junior/Senior: A pitcher remaining in the game, but moving to a different position, can return as a pitcher any time in the remainder of the game, but only once per game.

NOTE: A player who has met the mandatory play requirements, and is a pitcher at the time she/he is removed, may be removed for a substitute batter and re-enter the game as a pitcher once, provided the pitcher was not physically replaced on the mound.

Softball: a pitcher remaining in the game, but moving to a different position, can return as a pitcher anytime in the remainder of the game, but only once in the same inning as he/she was removed.

Minor/Major Divisions: NOTE: A pitcher, withdrawn from the game for a substitute offensively or defensively, may not re-enter the game as a pitcher. This applies to continuous batting order. EXCEPTION: A pitcher may re-enter the game as a pitcher, if withdrawn for a pinch-hitter or pinch-runner, and then returned to the game at the beginning of the next half-inning.

Junior/Senior Divisions: A pitcher may be withdrawn from the game, offensively or defensively, and return as pitcher once per inning provided the return does not violate either the substitution, visits per pitcher, or mandatory play rule(s).

(d) A starter and her/his substitute must not be in the line-up at the same time, except as provided in 3.03 Note 3. Once mandatory play is met, a starter and substitute(s) can enter/re-enter for each other as desired, but must re-enter in the SAME position in the batting order.

(e) Defensive substitutions must be made while the team is on defense. Offensive substitutions must be made at the time the offensive player has her/his turn at bat or is on base.

NOTE 1: A substitute may not be removed from the game prior to completion of his/her mandatory play requirements.

NOTE 2: When two or more substitute players of the defensive team enter the game at the same time, the manager shall, immediately before they take their positions as fielders, designate to the Umpire-in-Chief such players’ positions in the team’s batting order and the Umpire-in-Chief shall notify the official scorer. The Umpire-in-Chief shall have authority to designate the substitutes’ places in the batting order, if this information is not immediately provided.

NOTE 3: If during a game either team is unable to place nine (9) players on the field due to illness, injury, ejection, or inability to make a legal substitution, the opposing manager shall select a player previously used in the line-up to re-enter the game, but only if use of all eligible players has exhausted the roster. A player ejected from the game is not eligible for re-entry.


It contradicts the "player in the starting lineup . . " in the base of the rule.

And Lou - The prior rule didn't say a sub couldn't re-enter either - but they couldn't because the rule only authorizes re-entry by a starter.

#9 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 01 May 2018 - 09:28 PM

All the starting sentence says is that a Starter that re-enters must go back into the same spot in the batting order as opposed to the previous rule which allowed him/her to go back in anywhere in the order once his/her Sub met MPR.

The new (d) says a Starter and his/her Sub(s), once they have met MPR, can re-enter in the same spot in the order.
The old (d) said only a player in the starting line-up could re-enter the game (which meant Subs could not re-enter).

So, the new (d) and the EXAMPLE both say a Sub can re-enter (in the same spot in the batting order).


Yes, it would have been cleaner if the starting sentence said "any player" but no one has ever accused LL of writing good rules!!!
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