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CHECK SWING APPEAL


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#1 Jmlugo8511

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 04:43 PM

U1 in B or C position, batter check swings.
PU calls it a ball.
Defensive manager appeals.

Is U1 in position to provide input?
Should PU even ask "Did He Go?"

#2 richives

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 07:34 PM

U1 in B or C position, batter check swings.
PU calls it a ball.
Defensive manager appeals.

Is U1 in position to provide input?
Should PU even ask "Did He Go?"

 

The Rules Instruction Manual says:  "It is customary and highly recommended that the plate umpire check on a half-swing called a “ball” if he/she has doubt."

 

In the Official Rules upon which the LL rules are based the PU MUST ask when requested by the defense.  In high school rules it is "recommended" and most places teach "must".

 

You will catch all sorts of grief if you don't.  If the big boys can see it at 100' - 140' you can see it at 90'



#3 Jmlugo8511

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 07:51 PM

Thanks Rich!

#4 Robin Barradio

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 09:01 PM

The Rules Instruction Manual says:  "It is customary and highly recommended that the plate umpire check on a half-swing called a “ball” if he/she has doubt."

 

In the Official Rules upon which the LL rules are based the PU MUST ask when requested by the defense.  In high school rules it is "recommended" and most places teach "must".

 

You will catch all sorts of grief if you don't.  If the big boys can see it at 100' - 140' you can see it at 90'

Not quite correct.

 

In Official Baseball Rules (8.02c) (9.02c) comment. "Home plate umpire MUST refer to a base umpire......."

 

In Little League rules (9.02)c  "the umpire making the decision MAY ask another umpire......"

 

High School (FED) 10-1-4,  "the umpire making the decision MAY ask another umpire......"

 

Not sure about NCAA.

 

LL rules actually align closer with FED rules on this one. Plate umpire is not required to ask for help in LL rules. OBR requires PU to ask for help.

 

With that being said, on a check swing ball, when appealed properly, ALWAYS ask your base umpire in all rules sets, regardless of where your base umpire is positioned. Not asking is picking up the dirty end of the stick. What is the worst that could happen, you get a strike?

 

We have some umpires in our in LL and our HS associations that refuse to ask if they feel that the BU is not in the right position to see the swing. (i.e. BU in "A" position, left handed batter, etc.) Never do this, always ask when appealed.

 

To not do so is the result of poor training and poor game management.



#5 richives

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 05:09 AM

Not quite correct.

 

In Official Baseball Rules (8.02c) (9.02c) comment. "Home plate umpire MUST refer to a base umpire......."

 

In Little League rules (9.02)c  "the umpire making the decision MAY ask another umpire......"

 

High School (FED) 10-1-4,  "the umpire making the decision MAY ask another umpire......"

 

Not sure about NCAA.

 

LL rules actually align closer with FED rules on this one. Plate umpire is not required to ask for help in LL rules. OBR requires PU to ask for help.

 

With that being said, on a check swing ball, when appealed properly, ALWAYS ask your base umpire in all rules sets, regardless of where your base umpire is positioned. Not asking is picking up the dirty end of the stick. What is the worst that could happen, you get a strike?

 

We have some umpires in our in LL and our HS associations that refuse to ask if they feel that the BU is not in the right position to see the swing. (i.e. BU in "A" position, left handed batter, etc.) Never do this, always ask when appealed.

 

To not do so is the result of poor training and poor game management.

 

Actually I quoted the LL Rules Instruction Manual. It says "recommended" which aligns with "may" in the rule.

 

Same with FED. "recommended" and "may"

 

And I basically said "ask" which aligns with your "always ask

 

And I said OBR says "must"

 

So what part didn't I get correct?



#6 Robin Barradio

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:30 PM

Your answer could have used more clarity and explanation. OP asked if umpire should go to partner on a check swing appeal. It's not required in LL. OP also asked about whether or not BU positioning mattered. It doesn't.

 

Second part of your answer made it seem as if LL was the same as OBR.



#7 richives

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:34 PM

Your answer could have used more clarity and explanation. OP asked if umpire should go to partner on a check swing appeal. It's not required in LL. OP also asked about whether or not BU positioning mattered. It doesn't.

I quoted the RIM.
It says "recommended".
What more do you want?

#8 amutz

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:25 PM

I don't umpire much - so far have not seen a LL  catcher or manager ask plate ump to get help on check swing.  How often do you see it happen?



#9 Robin Barradio

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 04:37 AM

I don't umpire much - so far have not seen a LL  catcher or manager ask plate ump to get help on check swing.  How often do you see it happen?

I hardly ever see it in LL, and I've umpired a long time. HS and above, see it all the time.

 

Not sure why it doesn't happen in LL, perhaps many of the coaches lack training or experience?

 

Funny story. I was working a LL juniors game a few years ago, batter checked his swing, I properly say, "Ball, no he didn't go." I hear someone yell at the catcher to ask the ump to appeal, before I could do anything, catcher yelled back to his dugout, "no, the umpire said he didn't swing!" LOL!


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#10 Plesh

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 12:51 PM

I think there's a few reasons it's seen less in LL:

 

1. Less check swings in general

2. Often there is only one umpire

3. If there are two umpires, they are usually kids

4. Manager/ coach don't know you can appeal

5. And the most obvious answer, because they just don't care. Unless it's an All Star game, I'm not asking for an appeal.


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#11 rsnyder6

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 12:25 AM

I think there's a few reasons it's seen less in LL:

1. Less check swings in general
2. Often there is only one umpire
3. If there are two umpires, they are usually kids
4. Manager/ coach don't know you can appeal
5. And the most obvious answer, because they just don't care. Unless it's an All Star game, I'm not asking for an appeal.

Yes, all of these reasons.

I see a lot fewer borderline check swings in LL.
Kids often are not strong enough to really check a swing.



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