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#1 rsnyder6

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 12:27 AM

Looking towards the future. (yes we haven't even started this season yet)

I don't see it said, but with a blind draft under Little League rules, would you still have tryouts?

My only experience with a blind draft was where the players were rated, and you first put those rated 10 in a hat and drew them, then those rated 9 etc.

I actually thought that was LL way, until I read it today. (I was looking for something else for our coaches meeting tomorrow).

If you are just dragging all the 12 blindly, and then all the 11s, a tryout doesn't seem to be useful.

#2 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 12:46 AM

If you are using Plan C - Blind Draft, there is really no need for try-outs.

I do not know of any league that uses a Blind Draft in anything other than Tee-Ball or machine/coach pitch Minors.

No way would I ever use a Blind Draft in a competitive division.
By the way, if you did use Plan C in Majors it's a two part draft, all returners are picked first (by age) and then all new players are picked (again, by age).

Of course, you could always write your own draft plan and submit it to LL for approval.
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#3 rsnyder6

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 01:11 AM

If you are using Plan C - Blind Draft, there is no need for try-outs.

I do not know of any league that uses a Blind Draft in anything other than Tee-Ball.

No way would I ever use a Blind Draft in a competitive division.

I know there can be issues with a blind draft. (In some way the divisions that don't draft is a sort of blind draft, or maybe random is more appropriate.)

I did until today think it was blind, but with ratings. (Which have their own issues.)

Just always been intrigued with a draft that would offer more equal teams. I say every year it would be nice if every team was right around .500 at the end of the season, but it never seems to work.

#4 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 31 March 2018 - 01:19 AM

In my opinion, of the Draft Plans for Existing Leagues, Alternate Plan B has "the best chance" to create balanced teams.

Problem is, some managers are better judges of talent/draft better.

Then, after the draft, some managers/coaches teach/develop players better than others.

Such is life in Little League !!!

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Does anyone know of any league that uses Plan C - Blind Draft in majors or above?
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#5 Mr. Dill

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 11:42 AM

I have a league that has 6 teams in majors and each manager picks each team as evenly as possible.
Then they draw a number out of the hat and they get that team plus their child.
LL says thats looks like a blind draft.
I asked for an approval and LL gave it to that league.
This is truly the fairest way to have each team as even as possible.
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#6 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 02:02 PM

That Draft Plan is very similar to "Plan B - Team Draft Plan" under "LOCAL LEAGUE DRAFT METHODS, Methods for Local Leagues in their First Year of Operation".
The difference is in Plan B the teams play some scrimmages and then, if needed, some players are moved around to balance the teams.
Then the managers draw the teams (managers then trade for their children as needed).

I know of two "Existing Leagues" (one in MA and one in FL) that have used that Draft Plan.
It's "blind" when picking the teams, not while selecting the players.
The managers do try to create balanced teams since the team they get is picked out of a hat.

#7 rsnyder6

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 03:33 PM

I have a league that has 6 teams in majors and each manager picks each team as evenly as possible.
Then they draw a number out of the hat and they get that team plus their child.
LL says thats looks like a blind draft.
I asked for an approval and LL gave it to that league.
This is truly the fairest way to have each team as even as possible.

That's very interesting.
I like it.

It could also keep some kids together, siblings and such, which is a parent concern.

So coaches get their own, like in a regular blind draft?

What was the response to using it?

#8 Plesh

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 05:05 PM

That's what we've done for years, definitely is the best way to pick balanced teams.



#9 Mr. Dill

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 05:57 PM

But according to LL HQ you have to ask for a waiver to use this method each year???

#10 rsnyder6

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 06:07 PM

That's what we've done for years, definitely is the best way to pick balanced teams.

I wonder if I could get away with this in Minors.

In Minors, a lot of the coaches still pick by friendship, not quality of teams.

Then they complain that they lose so many games.

But being in Minors, I can experiment without needing approval, and then we could use what works in Majors with approval.

#11 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 06:29 PM

But according to LL HQ you have to ask for a waiver to use this method each year???

As stupid as that sounds, Yes!

Personally I think they should do away with the Existing League Plans and the First Year League Plans and just list all the Approved Draft Plans and let the leagues decide which one works best for them.
Seems silly to me to have to ask for a Waiver for an Approved Draft Plan.

Then again, it is Little League !!! B)
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#12 Mr. Dill

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 01:38 PM

A blind draft per LL is you pick all the kids out of a hat and place them on a team.

By having the managers pick the teams, evenly, then blindly pick a team with all the players already on it, except for the mgr son/daughter, is not in the rules.

So LL asked me to have this Waiver approved each year.
Even if this method is the best way to do it.

Also while balancing each team before they finally blind pick everyone should have a player who's father/mother is going to help coach also.

#13 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 05:03 PM

As stated above, your Plan is very similar to Plan B under Draft Plans for Leagues in the First Year of Operation.
LL has previously stated that if you are an Existing League you need a Waiver to use a Draft Plan listed under Leagues in their First Year of Operation.

Now, if you are going to give the manager and a coach their children "up front" (before you pick the players out of the hat) that is different than the Plan in the Rulebook.

#14 Mr. Dill

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 08:14 PM

After the teams are picked, then all full teams are put into a hat.
Each mgr then BLINDLY picks 1 full team that was put together by all the managers.
Then after picking a team the mgr gets his son/daughter.

#15 amutz

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Posted 09 April 2018 - 10:28 PM

The odds of getting unbalanced teams with unseeded blind picks are very high, which is one of the reasons it isn't used much.

For example pick 10 teams of 12, and imagine 120 players pre-ranked in groups of 30 of A,B,C,D ability.
For balanced teams, you want to have 3 players in each 4 groups.
In a random draw, the odds of one team having all B,C,D players is roughly 30%.
Same odds that one team has all players in A,B,C ability.

Mr Dill's method of randomly assigning the drafted teams looks better for balanced play.

#16 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 02:12 PM

For majors it's really pretty simple.

If you are an Existing League you can use a Draft Plan under Existing Leagues.
If you want to use one of the Draft Plans under Leagues in the First Year of Operation you need a Waiver approved by Williamsport.

If you want to use a Plan that is not in the LL Operating Policies or is even slightly different then you need to write-up what you want to do, submit it and get it approved by Williamsport before you use it.

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rsnyder6: So, what did you end up deciding to do?



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