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#1 Cab1978

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 05:42 PM

We have a boy who is age ready to move up to 11-12 yr olds.
I had him last years and I believe it would be a danger to him to move up.
I don't want to exclude him from playing, just concerned about his saftey.
He should stay down another year, period.
What is typically done to accommodate this?
Thanks

#2 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 05:49 PM

If he is a 12, you need a waiver from Charter Committee.
If he is 11, he just stays in minors.
You choose to structure your league by ages, not by the LL regulations.

#3 Cab1978

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 06:10 PM

We have a minor division that is 9-10 and a major division is 11-12. Been established for years. Just want to know if I can proceed with asking for this young man to play minors. Or does he play majors get hit hard and never play again.

#4 rsnyder6

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:13 PM

We structure the divisions the same way, but we are allowed to move players up or down. At least the Player Agent, Division Directors are involved, and usually the President. In some cases, the whole board is directly involved, (in others it gives a pro forma approval). 

I think we have only moved one 11 down, (we get few requests) and just a few almost 11s up (many more requests, as young as seven) in the years I have been involved.



#5 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:02 AM

Ours are generally:
7-8 coach/machine pitch minors
9-10 player pitch minors
11-12 majors

Our Local Rules allow players to play-up or play-down based on their skill level.
All 9-12s and any 8s wishing to play-up attend try-outs and get drafted or not drafted by the division managers (we draft 11-12s first then 9-10s).
We normally end up with a few 8s in 9-10 and a few 10s in 11-12.
Likewise, we may have a few 9s in 7-8 and a few 11s in 9-10.

It's been several years since we applied for a Waiver from our DA for a 12 to play in minors (Waiver does not require approval from Williamsport, just approval from the parent/guardian, league and DA).

=============================================
If the kid is 11 he should attend try-outs.
Who knows, he could have improved since last season and he might be good enough to get drafted into majors.
If he doesn't get drafted into majors then he drops to minors.
It ain't rocket science.
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#6 Cab1978

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:52 PM

Thanks guys.
I will share this with our president.

#7 Ron

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 11:33 PM

Make sure all of the facts are known for why he should play down.  Is it really for his safety?  I bring that up because several years back a player was being asked to play down. He was not happy.  As a Manager for his upcoming draft I questioned him playing down because he performed reasonably well for the tryouts.  I never had him on my team but did see him play.  He was not a top player, but he also wasn't the bottom player. 

 

I did not talk to the player or parents, but brought it up informally with the President.  I found out the parents wanted to leave him in the draft (11-12, he was 11).  If he did not get selected then they were fine with it, but their son would not be happy about it.

 

During the draft everything went normally and we got toward the bottom group of players and he was in the group.  I decided to draft him because he showed some promise.  Most importantly, during the tryouts he was friendly with many of the other players (they seemed to like him a lot).  Once on the team I did have several extra practices with him and a few other boys to speed up the transition into Majors.  He picked up the skills quickly but was still a mid-pack player.  By the end of the season he was one of my regular infielders because we practiced so much!  He also got along great with my other players.

 

I found out that prior Managers wanted players that could already play, and had minimal practices.  They focused primarily on their pitchers.  This player got discouraged.  Bottom line is to make sure the reasons are sound.  The player can get extremely discouraged and will remember it for life.  Fast forward a few years and my wife saw his mother at the store.  She told me that he made the High School team. Not the top player, but made the team.  Made me happy.


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#8 RB56

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 12:11 AM

Ours are generally:
7-8 coach/machine pitch minors
9-10 player pitch minors
11-12 majors

Our Local Rules allow players to play-up or play-down based on their skill level.
All 9-12s and any 8s wishing to play-up attend try-outs and get drafted or not drafted by the division managers (we draft 11-12s first then 9-10s).
We normally end up with a few 8s in 9-10 and a few 10s in 11-12.
Likewise, we may have a few 9s in 7-8 and a few 11s in 9-10.

It's been several years since we applied for a Waiver from our DA for a 12 to play in minors (Waiver does not require approval from Williamsport, just approval from the parent/guardian, league and DA).

=====================================================
If the kid is 11 he should attend try-outs.
Who knows, he could have improved since last season and he might be good enough to get drafted into majors.
If he doesn't get drafted into majors he simply drops down to minors.
It ain't rocket science.


Does Williamsport ever look into the number of waivers a DA approves for 12-year olds to play in the Minors? Do they ever survey the DA's for the number they have signed in any year?

Our leagues "abuse" this process in the eyes of many. For 11 and 12-year olds, each of our leagues has a drafted Majors Division team and an assigned Minors Division team. Last year, one of our four leagues had 5-Majors teams and 8-Minors teams for 11 and 12-year olds (worst offender). Assuming 12-players per team, that is a total of 156 players in the 11 and 12-year old divisions for this league.

If you assume roughly 40% are 12-year olds, that's 62-players split between Majors and Minors. If each of the 5-Majors teams had the maximum number of 12-year olds, that's 40-players. For the 12-year olds, would mean 22-players in the Minors Division and 40-players in the Majors Division. That is 35% of the 12-year olds playing in a Minors Division, an absurd figure.

Williamsport knows about our league's structure, and even approves a waiver for 12-year olds to pitch in the Minors Division. Not sure why, but the Charter Committee does. Our DA must get writer's cramp from signing so many waivers.

#9 Jeremy

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 07:15 AM

I would have the Safety Officer and the person who is most qualified to judge talent level in your league evaluate the player....Then bring the findings to the board and take it from there.....I believe 11’s shouldn’t be able to pitch in minors.
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#10 Guest_Cab1978_*

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:15 PM

I do know this boy well. Have watched him for 3yrs CP and I had him last year for his first year of minors. We typically practice at least a dozen times before our first game, also continues as the season goes along. After having a few limited “extra practices”. We went through 20 games last year and this young man never swung the bat once. He won’t stay in the box he’s just too afraid. He has been pulled aside but just doesn’t take instruction. I told the league president if he has to play majors I will personally take him. It’s not about being a bottom end player it’s about him wanting to be there at all.

#11 Jeremy

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 07:45 AM

I shouldn’t have said “talent level” they need to judge safty risk.

You’re a good coach for offering to take him if the board makes him play majors. Sometimes the biggest reward as a coach comes from kids like that, when you finally learn how to reach them.
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#12 amutz

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 04:29 PM

Personally I'd also approach it with the parents and explain the player will have more fun and be more competitive experience in Minors for one more year.  If the parents are on the same page as the coach it always helps, and the board should be supportive of placing players where they will have the best experience.  

 

I agree its common for coaches to overstate safety issues to push lower skilled players down to minors but this doesn't sound like one of those cases....





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