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Temp Expansion Required due to Age change


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#1 Chris the CPA

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:08 AM

Anyone else having the issue of having to expand for 2018 due to so many 12yo? The 12yo limit of eight per team is going to require us to expand by 3 -4 teams.

It's already creating a lot of issues from a parent and coach perspective and is only going to be a one year issue.

Has anyone successfully challenged the max 12 yo per team as a temp change? Seems like a reasonable request for one year given this is a one year issue due to the age change.

#2 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 12:35 PM

Send a Waiver Request to Williamsport asking to have more than eight 12s on a team for this season due to the age bracket.
Problem is, having that many 12s on your teams means there will be very few 11s which means very few returning players next season.

I'd add teams.
If it forces you to have more than 10 teams ask for a one year Waiver to not have to split (since your team number will drop back to 10 or less next year).

#3 richives

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:13 PM

Add teams.
LL is about being able to play and expanding the 12 roster just pushes 11 and under kids back a year.

#4 amutz

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 03:34 PM

Agree expanding # teams for a year is better than shrinking the number of 11s.



#5 Guest_Gator Y_*

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 06:54 PM

The 2018 season will be difficult with the grandfathered 13YO and the upcoming "younger" 11YO playing together.
Similarly we will have to expand Majors by 1-2 teams to accommodate the larger cohort size.

Leagues should consider how pushing down 11YO to minors (minors is now a true younger age cohort) would affect the 11YO baseball experience and overall quality of play.
Generally it is better to have the 5th, 6th (yes and 7th) graders play majors and have the 3rd and 4th graders play minors (keep those 10YO in minors) for this year.

#6 Guest_Guest guest_*

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 02:12 AM

As a parent of a summer 2006 player, rather than hear how hard the age change is making things for leagues logistically (which feels like a salt in a wound, considering the lost year for my kid), I'd rather hear some real solutions.
For example, expand Majors and even have two allstar teams for this year only.
Or another idea -- this would be an opportunity to start Intermediate in our area.
If my kid could have 2 years of Intermediate ahead of him, he'd almost certainly forego his "12" season.

#7 Plesh

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 01:32 PM

I heard of a few leagues being told they can temporarily expand to 11 or 12 majors teams for a year without having to dual charter.

 

Seems like they will be granting a lot of those waivers for next spring.



#8 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 07:06 PM

I wouldn't suggest "pushing down" 11 year olds unless you want someone to sniff around your charter and push you towards two divisions. 

 

Unless you are using the tenure system, there is no reason why you can't have more teams for one season. If you do have the tenure system, then you could have a reason to make the request to waive the 12 year old rule. But you had better be prepared to have 14 on a roster if you are going to ask for that waiver. 


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#9 Jamief

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:11 AM

Yet another reason for leagues to scrap Plan A draft.

Expand from 4 to 6 of 8-10 for 1 season only to reverse the process next season.
Quite a hassle!!

#10 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 01:48 AM

Yeah, kids are such a hassle.
Too bad they just want to play more ball ...

#11 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 02:43 AM

As a parent of a summer 2006 player, rather than hear how hard the age change is making things for leagues logistically (which feels like a salt in a wound, considering the lost year for my kid), I'd rather hear some real solutions.
For example, expand Majors and even have two allstar teams for this year only.
Or another idea -- this would be an opportunity to start Intermediate in our area.
If my kid could have 2 years of Intermediate ahead of him, he'd almost certainly forego his "12" season.

 

I expect the purpose of this forum is plan for league operations in the face of the new rules like the age change and the change to USA Bat standards.  It is not to put "salt in a wound".

 

Leagues need to assess their registration now (based on last year's data).  Will we have enough coaches? Enough fields for games and practice? Is there a budget for USA bats?  Do we have to increase registration fees to cover the budget.

 

How does two 12YO all star team even work?  Split the teams? A and B allstars (the B team will get crushed) Is this a solution?

 

We converted to 50/70 three years ago.  It cost $30,000 to recut the field, redo irrigation, add anchors, buy portable mound and raise our fence at 200' line in order to simulate 225.  Is your league ready to do this?



#12 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:25 AM

That is true (leagues looking for advice).

My input remains the same, that leagues should do everything possible to provide a good last year of Majors for the 11 year olds.

#13 Jamief

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 03:36 AM

Yeah, kids are such a hassle.
Too bad they just want to play more ball ...

Think you are missing the point.
Plan A creates unbalanced leagues.
Creates situations like next season where you have to expand to cover the larger player pool in the La11 and 12s.

Not sure how dealing with administrative issues created by these unique situations has anything to do with the kids playing ball.

#14 Plesh

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 12:45 PM

Plan A is a pain for expanding yes, but it's not like that happens every year. This is just a unique year because of the age change/ grandfathering with a large amount of 1 age group.

 

Plan A can work if you have a really good system and great coaches, but not many leagues have that.

 

 

Like I said above, I've heard of LL telling leagues they can expand to 11 or 12 teams for one year without having to add an additional charter. No reason to keep 11s down.



#15 rsnyder6

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 09:02 PM

We should be O.K. if last numbers hold.

Dividing teams out give me 8-12s and 5-11s per team.
That is with our 11s being an abnormally small group for some reason. (Even taking into account the extra eligibility months of the 12s.)

I guess if you don't redraft every year, it could be an issue.

#16 RB56

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 01:06 AM

Unfortunately, we actually reduced the number of Majors Division teams for 2018 (teams were filled to capacity back in August).  While the 12 year old age bracket will cover 16 months this year, our BOD is shrinking the Majors Division by 3 teams (from 17 teams down to 14 teams).  We often operate in some “Bizarro World” with everything the opposite of expectations.

 

As discussed in other threads, our four leagues offer a Major Division as well as three separate Minor Divisions for 9 to 12 year olds.  The Minor Divisions were broken down for 2017 between:

 

·         AAA Division for 11 and 12 year olds who chose not to tryout for Majors or who were not drafted.  There were 19 teams over our four leagues.  

·         Supreme Division for 9 and 10 year olds who desire a "more competitive" alternative (unique drafted division our league created in 2014).  There were 15 teams over our four leagues.

·         AA Division for 9 and 10 year olds who chose not to tryout for the Supreme Division or who were not drafted.  There were 34 teams over our four leagues.

 

For the 9 to 12 year olds, the Minors to Majors Ratio varied for the 2017 season.

League A: 13 Minors // 4 Majors // 3.3 to 1 Ratio
League B: 26 Minors // 5 Majors // 5.2 to 1 Ratio
League C: 18 Minors // 5 Majors // 3.6 to 1 Ratio
League D: 11 Minors // 3 Majors // 3.7 to 1 Ratio
Total All: 68 Minors // 17 Majors // 4.0 to 1 Ratio

 

LLI appears fine with this structure, as the Charter Committee has granted a waiver for 12 year olds to pitch in the AAA Division the past few years.  When pushed on operating issues, our BOD’s response is often some form of “the DA is okay with this approach” no matter what published rules and regulations state.

 

For 2018, we have restructured from four leagues down to three leagues.  Registration was up 15% over 2016, to over 1,500 players, but we are restructuring.  Our General Information Guide states, “We have restructured from 4 leagues to 3, which will more equitably balance our select leagues, and will in many cases increase the number of games closer to home.” 

 

Our BOD tends to focus on the select leagues, which are the drafted Majors Division for 11 and 12 year olds, and the drafted Supreme Division for 9 and 10 year olds (other divisions are assigned by neighborhood).  BOD’s apparent objective is to offer a competitive alternative to travel baseball, and by limiting the number of drafted teams and providing the opportunity for year-round training, that objective can be achieved.  For 2018, reducing the Majors Division from 17 teams down to 14 teams, and reducing the Supreme Division from 15 teams down to 12 teams.

 

A bit on the absurd side, but our BOD renamed the divisions for 2018.  For 11 and 12 year olds there will be two levels of play.

 

·         Major League AA Division (MAA) is for players that tryout and are drafted to a team.  Previously called Majors Division.

 

·         Major League A Division (MA) is for players not drafted for a Major Division AA team, or who chose not to tryout.  Previously called AAA Division.

 

The General Information Guide states, “All 12 YO’s will play in the majors, either at the MA or MAA level.”  A betting man would wager this name change was done so no waiver forms need to be collected for 12 years olds to play in a Minor Division, which is what Major League A Division (MA) really is (can only have one Majors Division).  Would be an obvious circumvention of published rules and regulations, but that is how our BOD rolls.



#17 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 12:32 PM

Again, how/why LL (Williamsport) approves what your league does continues to amaze me.
Why bother having Rules and Regulations?
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#18 amutz

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 02:23 PM

Our league is going to have to expand Majors division by at least 1 team if we stick to the 8/team limit for 12yo in 2018.

We will discuss applying for a waiver to allow 9 12s on a roster, and increase roster size to keep the 11s moving up to Majors.

Scheduling another Majors team onto fields would create scheduling problems for games and practices.

It's definitely a one-year bubble problem as overall our numbers are dropping.

We should be O.K. if last numbers hold.

Dividing teams out give me 8-12s and 5-11s per team.
That is with our 11s being an abnormally small group for some reason. (Even taking into account the extra eligibility months of the 12s.)

I guess if you don't redraft every year, it could be an issue.



#19 amutz

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 08:44 PM

Anyone heard from W'port about a possible blanket allowance for 2018 allowing up to 9 12yo per team, in order to accommodate the 16 months of 12yo?
Our DA alluded to a discussion under way but nothing definitive yet.

#20 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 08:14 PM

Ask and ye shall receive - check the LL Website for the 2018 Rule and Regulation changes.

Includes a one year Waiver on more than eight 12s on a team and also allows more than 10 teams in 2018 without splitting major division.



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