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#21 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 12:15 PM

The rule is 12, plain and simple.

If you can't play 12, and there can certainly be reasons why you can't, ask for a Waiver.

As you know I lived "up north" (Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York) for many years and I know that at times it is difficult to get 12 games in so, you get in what you can and if it's only 10 or 11, ask for a Waiver.

I remember a lot of late season Saturday double-headers (scheduled game and a rain make-up) being played to get 12 games in. If needed, we even used Sunday's for make-up games.

#22 richives

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 03:01 PM

The rule is 12, plain and simple.

If you can't play 12, and there can certainly be reasons why you can't, ask for a Waiver.

As you know I lived "up north" (Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York) for many years and I know that at times it is difficult to get 12 games in so, you get in what you can and if it's only 10 or 11, ask for a Waiver.

I remember a lot of late season Saturday double-headers (scheduled game and a rain make-up) being played to get 12 games in. If needed, we even used Sunday's for make-up games.

 

Just saying that prior to having to list the games and games played on the affidavit that the rule wasn't strictly enforced.



#23 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 01:23 AM

Three Tournament Requirements:
Age - wasn't much of an issue until Danny Almonte.
Residence/Boundaries - JRW tightened that up.
Participation - Maybe that's the next big issue?

Sure hope they don't go overboard with new requirements!

#24 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:07 PM

Again, 12 is 12.
"Official Games" are not played with 8 players.

They should have made up the missed games (to get to 12) or they should have asked for a Waiver.



Lou... I agree.
But if the DA didn't know they played with eight until well after the affidavit was signed... people put that stuff in their local rules all of the time.
And now that the local rules don't go all the way up to The Hill...

#25 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:11 PM

Three Tournament Requirements:
Age - wasn't much of an issue until Danny Almonte.
Residence/Boundaries - JRW tightened that up.
Participation - Maybe that's the next big issue?

Sure hope they don't go overboard with new requirements!

 

 

Participation has become an issue for sure. Central Carolina Little League was the first big one that I can remember... having to kick them from the state tournament for being a one-team charter that didn't interleague with anyone. (Kind of hard to play 12 LL games that way)

 

The other issue has been allowing more non-LL special games situations, which don't count towards your 12 games. That has become an issue more on the softball side and in teen baseball. 



#26 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:45 PM

Mike, if the league played games with 8 and put 12 games played on the Affidavit and showed the players playing in 8 or 9 there is no way the DA would know.
That said, in one of the articles it said the kids didn't get to play enough games because some of the games were canceled due to not having enough players.
If the Affidavit showed less than 12 games it should not have been approved by the DA, they should have asked for a Waiver.

#27 rsnyder6

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 03:06 AM

Mike, if the league played games with 8 

 

Little League recommends roster sizes of 8-10 for Minor League Levels. If a league rosters less than 9 at Minors, some regular season rules do not apply. Since these rules don't apply, these are official games, correct? So they count for the 8-10 tournament level.

Again, only for Minors.



#28 amutz

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:28 AM

Little League recommends roster sizes of 8-10 for Minor League Levels. If a league rosters less than 9 at Minors, some regular season rules do not apply. Since these rules don't apply, these are official games, correct? So they count for the 8-10 tournament level.

Again, only for Minors.

Double-take on my part; where does LL recommend a roster of 8-10 for Minors?  

Seems a little rough given it could easily result in 6-7 kids showing up for a game on any given day.



#29 Plesh

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 12:09 PM

Regulation III (The Teams): It says Minors and T-Ball recommended to have 8-10 kids.



#30 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 01:10 PM

It doesn't really talk about it in the rulebook but minors are either competitive or non-competative.

Normally, low level (e.g.: 7-8) Minors are non-competative/instructional.
Upper level (9-11) minors are competitive.
Competitive minors require 9 to play a game.

#31 rsnyder6

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:48 PM

It doesn't really talk about it in the rulebook but minors are either competitive or non-competative.

Normally, low level (e.g.: 7-8) Minors are non-competative/instructional.
Upper level (9-11) minors are competitive.
Competitive minors require 9 to play a game.

    But as you say, it doesn't really talk about it, only mentioning Minors.

    Leagues aren't likely to roster fewer than 9 for the 9-10 division, so I don't see it as an issue for that age. But what if a league decides to roster 8 for a 7-8 division? It would seem these games count for an 8 year olds availability on the 8-10 team. 

     If you roster 10, and 2 don't show up, you can't play, but if you roster 8, you can play with any amount. 

    This is not all theoretical, as with the ages at every division a little younger, and other considerations, we are looking at making rosters smaller in all of Minors. But last minute no-shows have increased in the last decade. 



#32 amutz

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 04:56 PM

But as you say, it doesn't really talk about it, only mentioning Minors.

Leagues aren't likely to roster fewer than 9 for the 9-10 division, so I don't see it as an issue for that age. But what if a league decides to roster 8 for a 7-8 division? It would seem these games count for an 8 year olds availability on the 8-10 team.

If you roster 10, and 2 don't show up, you can't play, but if you roster 8, you can play with any amount.

This is not all theoretical, as with the ages at every division a little younger, and other considerations, we are looking at making rosters smaller in all of Minors. But last minute no-shows have increased in the last decade.


For T-ball I wish we had done small rosters as it would have been a better experience for kids and coaches.
For 'non-competitive minors' above T-ball, I think I'd still have preferred a 10-12 kid roster.
Good to know.

#33 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 05:55 PM

Rule 1.00
Objectives of the Game
1.01 - Little League baseball in all divisions is a game between two teams of nine players each,...
Tee Ball/Minor League Instructional Division is a game between two teams ...
NOTE: Competative Minor Leagues and above may only use nine players on defense ...

So, in tee-ball and non-competative/instructional minors, games can be played with 9 or with more or less than 9 regardless of how many players are on the roster.

#34 Jeremy

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 07:07 PM

>>>"But what if a league decides to roster 8 for a 7-8 division? It would seem these games count for an 8 year old's availability on the 8-10 team."

All Star players have to come from a competitive division....Eight year olds have only been able to be All Stars for the past two or three years....This year we took two on the team, it might be a long time before we take more.

#35 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 08:11 PM

Jeremy, there is no requirement that All Stars have to come from competitive divisions.
For example, it says 8-10s can come from minors or majors, it does not say "competitive" minors.

That said, are you really going to put an 8 year old from your lower "non-competative/instructional" minors on your 8-10 All Star team?
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#36 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 09:14 PM

Oh Lou, you would be surprised.... 

 

That was one of my first statements in a state DA meeting last year. NC has an 8U coach pitch tournament that is run via Special Games in mid-June. I felt like no child in that tournament should also be eligible for the 8-10 tourney. 

 

Guess who was alone on that one.  :huh:



#37 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 10:37 PM

Mike, I was saying they "would be eligible" but asked how many leagues would think of putting an eight year old from coach/machine pitch on their 8-10 All Star team?

Our upper minors are 9-10 with one or two 8s on each team.
None of those 8s made All Stars, no way an 8 from machine/coach pitch minors is going to make it in my local league.

Maybe in some small leagues where they need some 8s to fill up an 8-10 team they do it but to me putting an 8 who has never faced kid pitching up to bat against a 10 year old All Star pitcher is not a good idea.

#38 rsnyder6

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 03:19 AM

Mike, I was saying they "would be eligible" but asked how many leagues would think of putting an eight year old from coach/machine pitch on their 8-10 All Star team?

 

I don't think we would, but some people brought it up this year for the charter that didn't field a tournament team. (Though I don't think they got that you can't fill a 8-10 team with coach pitch 8s.)



#39 Mike_Hirschman

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 01:47 PM

The issue that was happening was the 8s that play kid pitch all year going down into a coach pitch tournament.
But the discussion was in both directions.

#40 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 03:41 PM

Why would you allow 8s that played kid pitch all year to "drop down" and play in a coach pitch tournament?
Sure hope they didn't "bump" any coach pitch kids off the team!


Our District hosts BB and SB Post Season Coach Pitch Tourmanents.
They are limited to teams/players that played Coach/Macine Pitch during the Regular Season.



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