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Split League/Division


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#1 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 06:35 PM

Got a call from an old friend we used to be real close ...    (sorry, couldn't resist!)

 

Anyway, he said his league is growing and with the "16 month" band of kids they will need to "split" majors this year (12 teams, American and National with 6 in each).

 

They are discussing which method to use to split.

They want to keep siblings together so Even/Odd Birthdates are out.

Geography and Last Names seem OK but they could result in one League/Division being stronger than the other.

 

They like Common Pool and think it creates better balance but the problem is siblings.

Example: My friend has two sons, one is turning 11 and the other turning 9.

If the 11 year old gets drafted by an American Major Team and the 9 gets picked by a National Minor Team, they won't be able to play on the same team in the future.

 

They are thinking of asking Williamsport for a Waiver to use the Common Pool Method with the caveat that siblings must be drafted into the same league/division (American or National).

That way, at least the siblings will have a chance to play together.

If the Waiver gets turned down they are just going to split by Geography (keep siblings and neighborhood kids together).

 

Any thoughts/comments?

Do you think Williamsport would approve such a Waiver?

 

 



#2 richives

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 07:48 PM

They should just allow more than ten teams in the transition year.



#3 amutz

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 08:09 PM

I agree with Rich; I'd try very hard to get a one-year exception rather than splitting.  'Unsplitting' is incredibly difficult.     

 

If a split is required, our league analyzed dividing the common pool using odd/even house addresses.  This resulted in even population split compared to first letter of last name and keeps siblings together.    

 

We didn't submit a waiver for this method but its pretty basic and I'd be surprised if it wasn't accepted.



#4 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 05 January 2017 - 08:10 PM

They had 11 major teams last year and got a Waiver to "not split".
They will have 12 or maybe even 13 this year and next and may still have more than 10 in years past that.
Their numbers have been growing the last 5-6 years and they have big groups of 6, 7 and 8 year olds.

Question is, do you think LL would approve a Common Draft that stipulates siblings must be drafted to the same league/division?
They're not trying to stack a league division, they just want to make sure siblings could end up on the same team.

#5 Jamief

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 02:32 PM

Just looked up how leagues may split.

Why not split by last name? Solves sibling issue in most cases.

#6 Plesh

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 02:40 PM

They want to make sure talent is balanced in both leagues.

Last name, birthday, address, etc. can easily skew talent to one league.

Common Pool is the best way to divide kids up talent-wise, but they just want to make sure the siblings are on the same team.

 

Lou, how many families/siblings are we talking about here?



#7 Guest_Lou Barbieri_*

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 05:20 PM

Plesh is correct, the best method for "Balance" is the Common Pool Method but as written it can split up siblings.

That's why they are asking for an "Exception" to the Common Pool to mandate that siblings must be drafted into the same league/division.

 

According to my friend there are "more than a few" parents that have children that will end up in both minors and majors.

When I moved to my local league my 3 sons were 8, 10 and 11 so this would have been the case for me.

 

What they are trying to eliminate is things like Jimmy gets drafted onto an American Major Team and his younger brother Johnny gets drafted onto a National Minor Team.

Next year, when Johnny gets to Majors, he cannot end up on the team with his brother Jimmy.

 

As I said previously, if they don't get the Waiver they are going with Geography (to keep siblings and neighborhood kids together).

 

Of course, I guess they could always have a "gentleman's agreement" to draft siblings into the same league/division !!!   :D



#8 Plesh

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Posted 06 January 2017 - 05:58 PM

We all know how a lot of "gentleman's agreements" turn out in the end.

I think they'll get the Waiver though.

It makes sense.



#9 amutz

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 05:21 PM

Our league does not draft into and keep kids in American/National divisions at minors level.  

The kids in Minors are considered part of the Common Pool until they are in Majors.    

That's another way with sibling rule to keep kids together.  



#10 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 06:22 PM

amutz - what you are doing is NOT per LL rules/regulations !!!

Should I "assume" you have a Waiver?

 

If you "split" your majors you are supposed to also "split" your minors.

That's what it says on the Application for a Split League/Split Division.

 

From the Application/Form:

"Split League/Split Division is required in all competitive divisions (Minor League, Little League (Major), Intermediate (50/70) League, Junior League, and Senior League)...."

 

So, if an American Major Team loses a player it can only call up a player from an American Minor Team.

The following year when you "draft", players must stay in the same league/division.

American returners can only be on American teams and National returners can only be on National teams.

 

Since the older divisions (50/70 and up) usually have fewer players/teams, I do know of Split Leagues/Divisions that get a Waiver to only have one league/division in the older age groups.


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#11 Plesh

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 06:43 PM

So, you must have a powerhouse 9/10 All Star team I assume?



#12 amutz

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 08:23 PM

My answer was confusing.  We do split into 'American' and 'National' minor teams.   We don't consider the kids to be bound until they are drafted into Majors.  Both American and National minor team players are currently in a common pool for Majors draft.



#13 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 08:49 PM

OK, but even that is not "legal".

When you re-draft the following season (minors or majors) the players are supposed to remain in the same league/division as they were the previous season.

So, for example, an American minor leaguer moving up to majors would have to end up on an American major team.

That is, of course, unless you have an approved Waiver!


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#14 amutz

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 09:39 PM

I was told we only had keep the players in their divisions in Majors.    

That apparently came from the District.  



#15 Lou Barbieri

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 09:58 PM

amutz: politely inform your DA that he/she is incorrect.

Maybe he/she, and your President and Player Agent, should READ the Form that they are signing (or read page 174 of the 2016 BB Rulebook)!!!

 

Since you appear to use the Common-Pool Draft Method, ask your President/PA/DA to read the top of Part II of the Request Form where it states (underlining for emphasis is mine):

NOTE: Once a candidate is league age 9 years old ... and is assigned and/or drafted into a specific league or division (Example - American/National), the candidate cannot transfer to the opposite league/division during their entire Little League career. ... If the player moves between leagues/divisions, they will be deemed ineligible for tournament play.  If a league decides to redraft in any form or trade players, this note still applies.

(By the way, the same NOTE is on Page 174 of the 2016 BB Rulebook)

 

So, a league age 9 or 10 or 11 minor player drafted/assigned to an American League minor team cannot get put back into the "Common Pool" the following year and get drafted onto a National League major team.

 

I'd hate to see someone complain and a player or players get kicked of your Tournament Team, or worse yet, your Tournament Team get disqualified.


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#16 amutz

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 10:26 PM

I'll raise the issue.
Agree we need to get our story straight.



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